Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[temporal1]

I'm not Ken, but I think that Russia is trying to limit civilian casualties. I think the West is doing their best to magnify the "collateral damage". To what extent will they avoid certain operations because of civilian casualties is yet to be determined. I expect their restraint will decline as time goes on.

I would tend to agree. But if this is the case, then the international community should be pushing for Ukraine to do what it needs to do to end the fighting, instead of basically cheering them on from the sidelines. That is, if the international community actually cares about civilians lives.

If Russia decides to go for air superiority, a lot more lives will be lost, I really hope it doesn't come to that.

A lot really depends on who wins the war. And there was never much doubt that it would be Russia. But what will they actually have once they have gained control over Ukraine? What will eastern Europe look like with a Russian victory here?

Putin wants most of Ukraine to be neutral: (i presume Zelensky noticed, private talks continue)

Russia's demands

These demands from Putin suggest, if his complaints of NATO expansions OVER YEARS had been acknowledged, this disaster might have been avoided, as many knowledgeable people are saying.

Maybe i’m wrong, but, all things considered, these demands seem lucid, definitely a reasonable starting place for Ukraine+Russia.
Now to exorcise U.S. mainstream media!

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This follow’s the above tweet:

"Certain positive shifts" in talks between Russia & Ukraine according to Putin. One can always hope.

1 hour(s) ago
Zelenskyy: Ukraine's military has reached a 'strategic turning point' in the war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Friday that his country's military has reached “a strategic turning point" in its fight against invading Russian forces.

“It’s impossible to say how many days we will still need to free our land, but it is possible to say that we will do it because... we have reached a strategic turning point," he said, without elaborating.

Zelenskyy spoke in a video showing him outside the presidential administration building in Kyiv. He also announced that authorities are working on 12 humanitarian corridors and trying to ensure needy people receive food, medicine and basic goods.

Zelenskyy's comments come as Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday that there have been "certain positive shifts" in its talks with Ukraine.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

If the U.S. hadn’t jumped in from Day 1, if invasion had not been altogether avoided, possibly-probably agreements would have been quickly made. This will never be known. U.S. involvement guaranteed escalation, destruction, deaths.

The 22 minute interview (above) with John Mearsheimer includes many insights.

[Szdfan]

I guess somebody should tell 2 million Ukrainian refugees that there is no point in their having left the country. Collateral damage is being exaggerated and Russian rule is going to be great.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I said I don't know what the Ukraine would look like under Russian control, but the population of Crimea overwhelming prefers being under Russia vs The Ukraine.

Do you think it's possible that some Ukrainians panicked because of the exaggerations? Ukrainians have been subjected to a massive amount of misinformation. The most obvious one being "The Russians are coming to level your city ANY MINUTE NOW" However, no cities have been leveled yet.

I have no way of knowing for sure the extent of the damage thus far...but from the photos and testimonials I've seen and heard, and from the extent of the exodus, things are looking pretty decimated to me in some parts of Ukraine (e.g. Kyiv, Mariupol, Kharkiv).

Actually, I suspect, from your comments and perspectives, that we are looking to different information sources.

Nett, what are the information sources you’re looking at?

[temporal1]

Russia issues 3 demands ..
https://www.theepochtimes.com/facts-mat ... 24798.html

(This might not be the easiest to access.)
Basically, he’s trying to interpret Putin’s demands and Ukraine’s response (mike’s posts above) as reason for hope.

[nett]

Nett, what are the information sources you’re looking at?

I can't divulge everything on an open forum. but here's a few.

I've been following https://mobile.twitter.com/LezLuthor for a bit. What he's reporting out of Kyiv is completely at odds with the mainstream, and I've seen no credible rebuttals of his findings. He doesn't seem to have a pro-Russia slant at all, he's just documenting what he believes is essentially a giant movie set.

I also read https://twitter.com/RileyWaggaman. He's very anti-war, and very unsupportive of the Russian government.

My overwhelming belief here, is that the WEF / NATO leadership strongly desires WWIII, but they have to drum enough hateful sentiment to make it publicly viable. Facebook temporarily lifting their violent speech policy, but only towards Russians is such an obvious way to foment hate.

[nett]

Bennett advises Zelensky to surrender to Russia, Zelensky refuses - Ukrainian official

"If I were you, I would think about the lives of my people and take the offer," Bennett reportedly said.

[Bootstrap]

If Crimea is any indicator, Ukraine would be better off under Russian control.

So you believe people are better off in a military police state that controls all information sources? Would you choose to live in Russia these days?

Do you think Ukranians should be allowed to make that decision for themselves?

[nett]

If Crimea is any indicator, Ukraine would be better off under Russian control.

So you believe people are better off in a military police state that controls all information sources? Would you choose to live in Russia these days?

I don't see a major difference between that and big tech censorship. If God called me to Russia, I would go, and I wouldn't be that worried about it. I'm not a political dissident.

Do you think Ukranians should be allowed to make that decision for themselves?

How can the Ukrainians "make that decision for themselves"? 2 million of them decided to leave, and the Ukrainian authorities in many cases tried to prevent them from leaving.

Bennet told Zelensky to surrender for the good of his people, he said he won't do that. Zelensky appears to have priorities other than the wellbeing of Ukrainians.

Do you disagree with my statement about Crimea? Prior to this war, I didn't think Russia was that horrible of a place to live, at least not relative to The Ukraine. As far as I know, The Ukraine was not dealing with a massive influx of immigrants desperate to get out of Russia.

Was I missing something?

[Bootstrap]

Was I missing something?

Where would I even start?

I have been behind the Iron Curtain before the Wall opened, I lived in Berlin when the Wall fell, I have talked to many, many people about their lives before and after. I have listened to many hours of Communist propaganda broadcast on television. Sure, they don't call themselves Communists today, but the former head of the KGB is running this game. How much do you know about the Second Czechen War?

I think you are broadcasting Russian propaganda. I think you have no idea what waters you are playing in. Surely you know, at some level, that you are working very hard to stop people from sympathizing with the victims of this war and portraying the military aggressor as a victim.

[Dan Z]

My overwhelming belief here, is that the WEF / NATO leadership strongly desires WWIII, but they have to drum enough hateful sentiment to make it publicly viable.

Really?!? Frankly, this seems darkly cynical to me, and I'm struggling to see how a 3rd World War would benefit anyone - especially NATO.
What leads you to this conclusion?

[nett]

Was I missing something?

Where would I even start?

I have been behind the Iron Curtain before the Wall opened, I lived in Berlin when the Wall fell, I have talked to many, many people about their lives before and after. I have listened to many hours of Communist propaganda broadcast on television. Sure, they don't call themselves Communists today, but the former head of the KGB is running this game.

I'm not sure what you'r'e trying to say. What does the before / after of the Soviet Union have to do with anything now?

Are you suggesting Putin is a communist? How did you feel about Putin in 2000? Did you disagree with the consensus in in the west that he was the right choice, and was going to take the country in a more western-friendly direction?

How much do you know about the Second Czechen War?

A little bit, I know it was absolutely brutal, with a lot of suffering (I believe much more than the Ukraine conflict so far). did you feel that the Chechen separatists were on the right side of history, and that Russia were the unlawful aggressors. Would you say you supported the Chechen separatists?

I think you are broadcasting Russian propaganda.

Can you point to any Russian propaganda I've posted? Or any non-opinions I've posted thus far that are untrue?

I think you have no idea what waters you are playing in. Surely you know, at some level, that you are working very hard to stop people from sympathizing with the victims of this war and portraying the military aggressor as a victim.

I nothing but sympathy for displaced, disenfranchised people in the Ukraine regardless of whether it due to this war, or previous oppression (eg: the Asov Battalion's evil behavior). However, there is no virtue in sensationalized, astroturfed sympathy that foments ethnic hate. I will not be swayed into hating Russians, I'm sure that offends you, but it's not gonna happen.

Do you believe the Crimea is now worse or better off under Russia? It should be easy to judge this. and in 2014, the west was foaming at the mouth about Crimeans being plunged into a deep dark existence under the thumb of Russia, the greatest evil in the world.

I think looking at the real-life example of Crimea would be more helpful than hysterical pontifications, or accusations of Russian sympathy.