Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Neto]

Just so we're all clear, here is what the Azov battalion looks like:



As much as I might criticise the U.S. military, we do not have organised units of America's army that do this.

That red flag does not appear to be an original part of that picture. The top is too straight part way across. There is a white spot next to the guy's arm that makes one leg of the swastika much shorter than the others. Another one of the legs is narrower than the others. The left side of the flag goes up, so there would have to be some wrinkling or distortion of the swastika below that point, and there isn't. Looks totally fake to me. Poorly done PhotoShop job.

There are plenty of other pictures like this. Neto, are you saying you don’t believe Azov subscribes to neo Nazi ideology?

I do not know one way or the other. But if it is so, posting doctored photos should not be necessary to prove it. In fact, whoever modified that photo is doing more to disprove that claim than anything. (It was very easy to see that it is fake.)

[Josh]

I'm sure there are plenty of other pictures like the one you provided - pictures that have been edited and offensive elements added in to serve as propaganda. Why not swallow your pride and admit that you were wrong to have accused the Azov battalion of posing with a swastika flag? You insist that Bootstrap ought to admit when he makes a mistake - why do you refuse to admit when you are wrong?

Ken, the Azov battalion is well known as using neo-Nazi imagery. What is surprising to me is how many people are defending them.

[Josh]

Here's an article from al-Jazerra for example (which is not generally considered biased towards Russia at all):

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... v-regiment

So what is the Azov regiment?
Azov is a far-right all-volunteer infantry military unit whose members – estimated at 900 – are ultra-nationalists and accused of harbouring neo-Nazi and white supremacist ideology.

The unit was initially formed as a volunteer group in May 2014 out of the ultra-nationalist Patriot of Ukraine gang, and the neo-Nazi Social National Assembly (SNA) group. Both groups engaged in xenophobic and neo-Nazi ideals and physically assaulted migrants, the Roma community and people opposing their views.

This is something that the "international community" has a consensus on, but for whatever reason is turning a blind eye to right now.

[HondurasKeiser]

I'm sure there are plenty of other pictures like the one you provided - pictures that have been edited and offensive elements added in to serve as propaganda. Why not swallow your pride and admit that you were wrong to have accused the Azov battalion of posing with a swastika flag? You insist that Bootstrap ought to admit when he makes a mistake - why do you refuse to admit when you are wrong?

Ken, the Azov battalion is well known as using neo-Nazi imagery. What is surprising to me is how many people are defending them.

No one is defending them.

[ken_sylvania]

I'm sure there are plenty of other pictures like the one you provided - pictures that have been edited and offensive elements added in to serve as propaganda. Why not swallow your pride and admit that you were wrong to have accused the Azov battalion of posing with a swastika flag? You insist that Bootstrap ought to admit when he makes a mistake - why do you refuse to admit when you are wrong?

Ken, the Azov battalion is well known as using neo-Nazi imagery. What is surprising to me is how many people are defending them.

I don't know if they are or not. The quality of the "proof" that you shared is quite poor.

[Szdfan]

It's well documented that the Azov battalion uses neo-Nazi imagery and has a history of human rights abuses. The stretch is whether this justifies a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. The Russian assertion that the Ukrainian government is run by Nazis is unsubstantiated -- Zelensky (who is Jewish) seems like the least likely Nazi ever.

Multiple things can be true. NATO expansion into Eastern Europe was provocative. The Azov battalion has neo-Nazi sympathies and ideology. None of these things justify the current war.

[Ken]

I'm sure there are plenty of other pictures like the one you provided - pictures that have been edited and offensive elements added in to serve as propaganda. Why not swallow your pride and admit that you were wrong to have accused the Azov battalion of posing with a swastika flag? You insist that Bootstrap ought to admit when he makes a mistake - why do you refuse to admit when you are wrong?

Ken, the Azov battalion is well known as using neo-Nazi imagery. What is surprising to me is how many people are defending them.

I don't know if they are or not. The quality of the "proof" that you shared is quite poor.

It's also a 10-year old photo passed around various internet forums which you discover if you do a reverse image search.

Yes I'm sure there are right-wing extremists in Ukraine. Just like there are plenty of the same thing in Russia and in every western military except perhaps one.

But there is only one nation that is engaged in a fascistic war of aggression in this conflict and it isn't Ukraine. Even the real Nazis tended not to target children's hospitals like the Russians are currently doing.

[Szdfan]

Poland is struggling to deal with the influx. Tonight someone told me that there are 50 very young children “camping” at the train station in Wrocław. May God have mercy.

For context, here's the train station (in a more peaceful time):

Photos from your travels?

... and a stationary train.

Nobody asked, but this is a "sculpture" called "The Train to Heaven." The locomotive is Ty2 class no. 1035 a former German class 52 "Kriegslkokmotiv" (War locomotive). The Germans built thousands of these during WWII as part of the war effort and they ended up all over Europe after the war, especially in Poland and the former Soviet Union. I'm sure someone could make some sort of metaphor with the current situation.

[nett]

Just so we're all clear, here is what the Azov battalion looks like:



As much as I might criticise the U.S. military, we do not have organised units of America's army that do this.

That red flag does not appear to be an original part of that picture. The top is too straight part way across. There is a white spot next to the guy's arm that makes one leg of the swastika much shorter than the others. Another one of the legs is narrower than the others. The left side of the flag goes up, so there would have to be some wrinkling or distortion of the swastika below that point, and there isn't. Looks totally fake to me. Poorly done PhotoShop job.

Neto, I'm sorry, but I think you're completely wrong. Everything you pointed out is no longer relevant when you look at a higher res version of this picture.

The top part is straight because someone is stretching it taught, while his elbow holds the left-middle down.
The white spot is an arm patch on the man's uniform
The leg of of the swastikais narrower than the others, because of the distortion that claim isn't there, but actually is.

[nett]

I'm sure there are plenty of other pictures like the one you provided - pictures that have been edited and offensive elements added in to serve as propaganda. Why not swallow your pride and admit that you were wrong to have accused the Azov battalion of posing with a swastika flag? You insist that Bootstrap ought to admit when he makes a mistake - why do you refuse to admit when you are wrong?

Probably because he's not wrong. Neto got confused by the low-res, high contrast version that Josh posted.