Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Josh]

The languages and cultures are almost identical.

If the language is almost identical- why did the husband of the one couple we knew in ESL know Russian only- he grew up in Ukraine during USSR domination and Russian was only language taught. His wife learned both. His children know both but they speak in Russian to him as he does not know Ukrainian well enough.

Culture the same? From what I read about the time when Stalin starved the Ukrainians - he was trying to wipe out that culture and moved Russians in when so many died from starvation.
And the Ukrainians I know do not agree with what you are saying. I will go with believing them- they are Ukrainian.

For an example of what I mean, consider the current President of the Ukraine who can't speak Ukrainian very well (Ukraine has a bigger vocabulary and different pronunciations, plus it's written different, generally more complex). But if someone knows Ukrainians, it's basically a sure thing they can understand Russian. If you have a group of people who know both languages often some people will talk in Ukrainian, the Russians can understand it but they'll answer back in Russian since they can't speak Ukrainian as well.

As far as why Stalin starved "the Ukrainians", that had little to do with ethnic groups and a lot to do with the fact Stalin starved his own people all over the USSR, basically anywhere a political rebellion appeared.

They're "different" in the sense America and Canada are different countries, the languages and cultures are slightly different, but overall it would be absurd to claim that Americans and Canadians are fundamentally different people.

[mike]

The progress of the Russian military seems to be relatively slow. I still think eventual Russian takeover is most likely, but it will take much longer than they expected, and at a much greater cost to themselves in terms of casualties and other military losses. Ukrainian civilians look to be suffering badly.

[Soloist]

They planned a 15 day offensive. It certainly seems they underestimated the west's response but I'm not sure they are moving that slow. Also casualties on both sides shouldn't be believed but the true number is likely between the Ukraine estimate and the Russian.

[Bootstrap]

Ukranians clearly seem to believe that they exist, that they have a language and a culture and a country that they care about. Bible translators certainly believe that Ukranian exists and needs its own translations, linguists list it as a separate language.

I speak only enough Ukranian to understand church services and get someone to pass me food at the table, but I think this article is accurate:

How Similar are the Ukrainian and Russian Languages?

Russian and Ukrainian share about 62% lexical similarity, which doesn’t necessarily mean that they have 62% of their vocabulary in common; rather, that 62% of their vocabulary are words with similar meaning and form and are from the same origin. For example, English and German share 60% lexical similarity.

Ukrainian actually has a higher lexical similarity with other Slavic languages — it has 84% similarity with Belarusian, 70% with Polish, and 66% with Slovak.

The grammar is much more similar, but it is different:

Russian has six noun cases — nominative (for subjects), genitive (for possession), dative (for indirect objects), accusative (for direct objects), instrumental (indicates means), and prepositional (used only with prepositions).

Ukrainian has all of these noun cases, plus one more — vocative. Vocative is used in direct address, most commonly with someone’s name.

Russian used to have a vocative case, but it largely fell out of use except for in very few instances, such as when a person addresses God.

Noun endings are very similar in Ukrainian and Russian, and often only differ only by a few letters because different sounds are expressed with different letters in the two languages.

But really, why should Ukranians have to justify their existence? Why promote the military aggressor's claim that they have no right to exist on their own?

[Dan Z]

The languages and cultures are almost identical.

If the language is almost identical- why did the husband of the one couple we knew in ESL know Russian only- he grew up in Ukraine during USSR domination and Russian was only language taught. His wife learned both. His children know both but they speak in Russian to him as he does not know Ukrainian well enough.

Culture the same? From what I read about the time when Stalin starved the Ukrainians - he was trying to wipe out that culture and moved Russians in when so many died from starvation.
And the Ukrainians I know do not agree with what you are saying. I will go with believing them- they are Ukrainian.

For an example of what I mean, consider the current President of the Ukraine who can't speak Ukrainian very well (Ukraine has a bigger vocabulary and different pronunciations, plus it's written different, generally more complex). But if someone knows Ukrainians, it's basically a sure thing they can understand Russian. If you have a group of people who know both languages often some people will talk in Ukrainian, the Russians can understand it but they'll answer back in Russian since they can't speak Ukrainian as well.

As far as why Stalin starved "the Ukrainians", that had little to do with ethnic groups and a lot to do with the fact Stalin starved his own people all over the USSR, basically anywhere a political rebellion appeared.

They're "different" in the sense America and Canada are different countries, the languages and cultures are slightly different, but overall it would be absurd to claim that Americans and Canadians are fundamentally different people.

I think the Canada/US analogy is helpful Josh, but it does raise the question - how would Canadians respond if Biden were to invade and threaten annexation? Despite the cultural, linguistic, and historic similarities, I doubt the US Military would be greeted as liberators.

[Soloist]

While perhaps Ukraine and Russia have similar cultures and dialect, I would see the Hutterites unable to integrate with the Amish if the Amish declared war and conquered them.

To follow this, what would happen if the Mennonites demanded at gunpoint that the Amish rejoin them, would it work? We both are from the same roots, we believe the same thing right? they should be willing to submit to our rule.

[mike]

Russia's demands

[Soloist]

Russia's demands

Only one of those would be a change of how things are in practicality and perfectly fitting with the goal of a buffer against NATO.

[mike]

Only one of those would be a change of how things are in practicality and perfectly fitting with the goal of a buffer against NATO.

I read elsewhere that the constitutional change Russia demands would include an agreement never to join an outside league of countries such as NATO or the EU. I can see this being a really sore spot for Ukraine even if they would agree to it because nothing would prevent this terrible scenario from happening again down the road when Russia wants more. If they agree to something like what is proposed here, I could see Ukraine demanding an international peacekeeping force.

However, as long as Ukraine sees any possibility of defeating or even stalling the invasion, they probably will not be motivated to give in to demands like these.

[Dan Z]

Russia's demands

Only one of those would be a change of how things are in practicality and perfectly fitting with the goal of a buffer against NATO.

That's hopeful...on Russia's part, the war would have been a personally and monitarily expensive way to get these concessions.