Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Soloist]

I think we're at least wrestling with the right question.

I see this differently than you do. Yes, all humans are sinful. But we can still be outraged at particularly horrendous sins, and we can identify the guilty party in some of them.

I see no reason to be outraged at someone's sin. Great sadness and sorrow sure.

I would take sides between a rapist and a woman who is raped, even if she defended herself. I think the Kingdom of God needs that level of moral clarity. Let's not play "both sides" with this or be too eager to believe promote the stories told by the rapist. Yes, there should be a fair trial when possible, but I sure hope that woman is rescued.

You like comparing this to rape. I would stand between, but the trial is not for me to decide. I do not judge as I do not take part in jury duty. I assume based on your willingness to decide on a guilty party especially when we are not there (war crimes) that you would serve in a jury or at least have trouble proving you don't judge.

I would take sides between a military invasion and the country that is invaded. I don't think the Kingdom of God message is that both sides are equally culpable here. That is a narrative that favors the oppressor over the oppressed by saying that we will not take their crimes seriously. It's not a Kingdom of God narrative.

I would not take sides here and I think that if both sides are shooting each other, both sides are guilty of murder. There is a narrative that Ukraine can't do wrong and I see that not fitting with the Kingdom of God.
Both sides are doing wicked things and I see no reason for me to decide one is more worthy of condemnation. Now speaking of world leaders, sure Putin is guilty of directing an attack for reasons he justifies. Why should the Russian soldiers the ones supposedly committing these war crimes be judged so harshly by you? Meanwhile the Ukrainians are being called to fight against the Russians with guerilla warfare. You really don't understand those tactics but they use fake war crimes and other atrocities to drum up support. The Ukrainians fighting who are not part of the actual armed services wouldn't be protected in the same way as actual military

There is a perfectly valid Kingdom of God narrative that says we won't try to sort out who is to blame, we will merely try to find ways to help the victims. But that's not the same as the "both sides" narrative, which is really a kind of moral relativism. "Oh, how can you say that this country that invaded its neighbor is any worse than ..."

Won't try to sort out who's to blame? okay sure lets do that! It sounds great, so why are you not doing that? You are fixated on Russia being evil rather then following this.

But I'd encourage all of us to ask what promotes the Kingdom of God and how the Kingdom of God should respond to this situation. When it comes to facts, I would also encourage all of us to be very skeptical of all kinds of data sources during the fog of war.

What is the Kingdom of God perspective? What is the Kingdom of God response? If we are seeking first the Kingdom of God, what does that have to say to this situation?

Exactly what I've been saying. The Kingdom of God is not involved in deciding this news paper is better then that one or involved in casting judgement on one godless nation over another. I mean, both claim to be Orthodox strongholds yet they seem to want to kill each other.

[GaryK]

Looks to me like the Russians are no more sinners then the Ukrainians and our response is to call all to repent. Taking a side, Russian or Ukrainian is not the way of our King.

I think we're at least wrestling with the right question.

I see this differently than you do. Yes, all humans are sinful. But we can still be outraged at particularly horrendous sins, and we can identify the guilty party in some of them.

I would take sides between a rapist and a woman who is raped, even if she defended herself. I think the Kingdom of God needs that level of moral clarity. Let's not play "both sides" with this or be too eager to believe promote the stories told by the rapist. Yes, there should be a fair trial when possible, but I sure hope that woman is rescued.

I would take sides between a military invasion and the country that is invaded. I don't think the Kingdom of God message is that both sides are equally culpable here. That is a narrative that favors the oppressor over the oppressed by saying that we will not take their crimes seriously. It's not a Kingdom of God narrative.

There is a perfectly valid Kingdom of God narrative that says we won't try to sort out who is to blame, we will merely try to find ways to help the victims. But that's not the same as the "both sides" narrative, which is really a kind of moral relativism. "Oh, how can you say that this country that invaded its neighbor is any worse than ..."

Your comparison here is not equal. You are comparing a system's "sin" to an individual's sin. The KOG calls individuals to repentance. I'm not aware of the NT calling for political systems to repent of sins.

[nett]

I would take sides between a military invasion and the country that is invaded. I don't think the Kingdom of God message is that both sides are equally culpable here. That is a narrative that favors the oppressor over the oppressed by saying that we will not take their crimes seriously. It's not a Kingdom of God narrative.

What is the biblical basis for this on a national level? I understand this on an individual level, but as I've pointed out, the nation of Israel slaughtered their enemies mercilessly, and I am not aware of any change to the morality of that in the New Testament.

I am legitimately asking, I'm not trying to make the case that Christians need to support warmongers, but I am not ok with just applying "kingdom principles" to arenas of worldly influence to determine who is right and wrong.

[Szdfan]

This piece is interesting in the way it describes the growing differences and gaps between Russian and Ukranian family members because of the information war.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60600487

Oleksandra and her four rescue dogs have been sheltering in the bathroom of her flat in Kharkiv since the shelling began.

"When I heard the first explosions, I ran out of the house to get my dogs from their enclosures outside. People were panicking, abandoning their cars. I was so scared," she says.

The 25-year-old has been speaking regularly to her mother, who lives in Moscow. But in these conversations, and even after sending videos from her heavily bombarded hometown, Oleksandra is unable to convince her mother about the danger she is in.

"I didn't want to scare my parents, but I started telling them directly that civilians and children are dying," she says.

"But even though they worry about me, they still say it probably happens only by accident, that the Russian army would never target civilians. That it's Ukrainians who're killing their own people."

"My parents understand that some military action is happening here. But they say: 'Russians came to liberate you. They won't ruin anything, they won't touch you. They're only targeting military bases'."

While we were interviewing Oleksandra, the shelling went on. The internet connection was weak, so we had to exchange voice messages.

"I've almost forgotten what silence sounds like. They're shelling non-stop," she said.

But on Russian state TV channels on the same day, there was no mention of the missiles striking Kharkiv's residential districts, of civilian deaths, or of four people killed while queuing for water.

And so on...

[Sudsy]

One KOG perspective for me is that we will continue to live amongst sinful kingdoms of sorts until Jesus returns Rev. 11:15 says -

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

There are differing views on this but I tend towards the belief that satan currently is being allowed to rule the kingdoms of this world but this ruling is not beyond what God allows him to do.

Satan offered Jesus the kingdoms of this world because he claimed to have authority over them. Jesus didn't rebuke satan and say that he really didn't. Some say since satan has been totally defeated by Christ on the cross, and has no kingdom to offer. Others, while acknowledging satan's defeat on the cross, do not believe Christ's kingdom will be fully realized until Christ returns. So, for now, satan is ruling this evil world system as the god of this age, and the ruler of the authority of the air.

The KOG now is a spiritual experience in the life of believers in Christ that flows out into this world in various ways and basically involves being an example in word and deeds of this 'Heavenly Kingdom' that will only be fully realized on this earth when Jesus returns and establishes it under His direct control. Then satan's control and influence will be completely gone from this world and there will only be the KOG here.

For me, whatever currently goes on in this world is not meaningful to judge or take sides about as satan is doing his thing now and God is allowing him to do so, within parameters that only God knows in working out His eternal plans. Our job is to point people to this other Kingdom, which requires being born of the Spirit to become a citizen of this Kingdom and to continue learning more, through the Holy Spirit's guidance, how He wants to use us in furthering that Kingdom.

So, taking sides and focusing on what satan is doing is being side-tracked from our life as ambassadors of the KOG. And, I would think, satan is quite pleased to see how unproductive this makes a Christian. Do I get side-tracked ? For sure and too much.

[JimFoxvog]

For those who believe ex-president Trump often tells the truth, here's what he has to say on Ukraine:

Russia has gotten in deeper than they ever thought possible […] to a certain extent because of the weapons that I gave, and that the Ukrainians used so well, I mean they used so well, amazing. […] So I think Russia is, something could be done with them right now, because they’re not looking so good […]

They have to stop killing these people, they’re killing all these people and they have to stop it. And they have to stop it now. But they don’t respect the United States … this is a holocaust, this is a horrible thing that is happening, you’re witnessing and you’re seeing it on television every night. Who can believe that this, they’re taking army tanks and they’re taking missiles and shooting them into buildings…

This is a partial transcript by Daily Kos allegedly from a Fox News interview
( https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3 ... -holocaust )

It's more accurate than expect, seeing the source.

[mike]

Russia has blocked access to Twitter and Facebook in Russia.

[mike]

[temporal1]

i could not begin to guess what DJT is thinking or saying about Ukraine.
of course, i’m aware of some chatter. i don’t count that as anything valuable.

i’ve wondered how SLOVENIA impacts the Trumps. of course, i don’t know. it’s reasonable to guess there are ties/influences.
i believe it’s safe to presume the Trumps are not detached bystanders.

“Slovenia's consulate in Ukraine destroyed in attack on Kharkiv -ministry”
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sl ... 022-03-01/

“Melania Trump calls for Red Cross donations over 'heartbreaking' Ukrainian invasion”
https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/i ... rtbreaking

“Melania Trump Finally Speaks Out About The Crisis In Ukraine”
https://www.thelist.com/785239/melania- ... n-ukraine/

2016 / “Slovenia, homeland of Melania Trump, offers to mediate US-Russia ties”
Prime minister says EU member could be ‘a bridge between two superpowers’
Miro Cerar has spoken by phone with Donald Trump and future first lady
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... miro-cerar

[mike]

Russia has blocked access to Twitter and Facebook in Russia.

There is some irony in Facebook and Twitter being censored after the amount of censorship that they have done themselves.