Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[temporal1]

mike:
I wonder what short-term impact this will have.

i’m pretty sure it removes the possibility that Ukraine might choose non-resistance. they wouldn’t be allowed.
i’m afraid Ukraine, country+population, may find itself a useful pawn in bigger wars.

Ukraine has been a very warlike country, particularly their bad habit of letting their National Guard shell Donetsk and Luhansk and looking the other way. Of course, they claim this is “antiterrorism”, as of killing 10-20 civilians a day is somehow peaceful.

There is a historical culture of war in many countries.
In the U.S., we navel-gaze, but, it doesn’t require much searching to learn about violence and wars, all continents, hundreds+hundreds of years before 1776. A lot of sophistication still in use today. It began with a stone.

This is what made Jesus such a “revolutionary.” He was/is anathema. contraintuitive. It cost Him. It costs.

(i don’t foresee Ukraine choosing nonresistence.) it’s suggested as a choice in this topic.

[nett]

Why can’t the country being attacked, simply surrender?
Wouldn’t that be in their control? I don’t know that it is correct to say that the attacker is the only one who controls when peace breaks out. It takes two to fight.

But would they be safe and secure as a result? Would this really end the killing, or would Russia then start killing anyone they deem suspicious? Would Putin try to wipe out Ukranian national identity and ethnic identity and language in order to try to make everyone Russian as his rhetoric implies he might?

And do you really want to imply that the aggressor is no more guilty than the country they attack if the country does not immediately surrender to avoid war?

The only implication being made, was you saying the only way to end the war is for Russia to withdraw. While I agree that is the most sane thing that should happen, it isn’t the only way to end the violence. It takes two to fight. Just like with children.

What would Putin do if Ukraine surrendered? Who knows?
I’m not sure where you get the idea that the defending country is more guilty than the attacking country, that seems sort of an odd position to take.

Putin has been pretty clear with his demands, and the Russia course of action should Ukraine "surrender". Russia is not seeking an occupation, they are seeking disarmament, and de-nazification, because those things are a threat to Russia (according to the Kremlin)

[Szdfan]

But would they be safe and secure as a result? Would this really end the killing, or would Russia then start killing anyone they deem suspicious? Would Putin try to wipe out Ukranian national identity and ethnic identity and language in order to try to make everyone Russian as his rhetoric implies he might?

And do you really want to imply that the aggressor is no more guilty than the country they attack if the country does not immediately surrender to avoid war?

The only implication being made, was you saying the only way to end the war is for Russia to withdraw. While I agree that is the most sane thing that should happen, it isn’t the only way to end the violence. It takes two to fight. Just like with children.

What would Putin do if Ukraine surrendered? Who knows?
I’m not sure where you get the idea that the defending country is more guilty than the attacking country, that seems sort of an odd position to take.

Putin has been pretty clear with his demands, and the Russia course of action should Ukraine "surrender". Russia is not seeking an occupation, they are seeking disarmament, and de-nazification, because those things are a threat to Russia (according to the Kremlin)

"Denazification" is a euphemism for regime change. They want to remove the current government and install one that is pro-Moscow.

[Sudsy]

How wonderful to be able to chose to live in the peace of God. I have no concern that whatever happens it will be something that God allows to happen as He is omnipotent. I just need to trust that He allows what He allows to happen for His purposes. I can rest in that.

I don’t disagree with this, but it’s a lot easier to proclaim the peace and goodness of God when you’re not the target of rocket attacks or invasion.

Yes, we can sing and speak about peace but it is another thing to really experience the peace Jesus gives in any and all circumstances.

I believe scripture says we can abide in the peace of God in any conflict this world brings about. His peace, as spoken of in John 14:27, He calls 'My peace'. That peace is a 'peace that passes all understanding'. It is a gift from God not something we can attain by ourselves. The world's peace depends on circumstances. Jesus' peace does not. And He commands us to not be afraid or troubled.

Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid.

From https://www.biblestudytools.com/john/14-27.html

The peace Christ gives is true, solid, and substantial; the peace the world, the men, and things of it give, is a false one; and whilst they cry, "peace, peace, sudden destruction is at hand": the peace of the world is at best but an external one, but the peace Christ is the giver of, is internal; the peace the world affords is a very transient, unstable, and short lived one, but the peace of Christ is lasting and durable; the peace of the world will not support under the troubles of it, but the peace which Christ gives, cheerfully carries his people through all the difficulties and exercises of this life: and as these differ in kind, so likewise in the manner of giving, and in the persons to whom they are given; the world gives peace in words only, Christ in deed; the world gives feignedly, Christ heartily; the world gives it for its own advantage, Christ for his people's sake; the world gives its peace to the men of it, to the ungodly, none to the godly, whom it hates; Christ gives his; not to the wicked, for there is no peace to them, but to the saints, the excellent in the earth.

In my experience, I have, at times, chosen to abide in His peace and other times allowed the world, through it's various means, rob me of that peace. I think this is often called 'concern' when it really is a state of anxiousness and even fear. This anxiousness shows up often, especially when discussing current events. It is like singing 'He's got the whole world in His hands', yet be anxious about what God is allowing to happen. When I fully trust Him, His peace is restored in me.

Paul writes -

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

The key is found in that text in how our minds and hearts are guarded from missing out on experiencing the peace of God.

[JimFoxvog]

Mennonite World Conference prayer service for Ukraine is over Zoom tomorrow.

Mennonite World Conference - MWC CMM

As a sign of global solidarity with the people and churches of Ukraine, Mennonite World Conference joins the Conference of European Churches, the Lutheran World Federation, the World Communion of Reformed Churches, and the World Methodist Council to issue an invitation to an online prayer service for Ukraine on Ash Wednesday – 2 March 2022 at 16:00 UTC.
The prayer will include listening to voices from Ukraine.
To join the prayer service at 16:00 UTC on 2 March 2022, register by clicking the link below
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A ... -DSHIDyu7w

If the link doesn't work, go to the Mennonite World Conference Facebook page. They don't seem to have a link on their own website.

[mike]

Canada bans Russian owned or registered ships from Canadian waters. One of the latest countries to do so.

[Josh]

"Denazification" is a euphemism for regime change. They want to remove the current government and install one that is pro-Moscow.

Could you tell me how this is different than what happened in 2014?

[mike]

There are claims that none of the financial fallout of the invasion has been a surprise to Putin, who has likely been planning this operation for a long time. However there are probably a lot of powerful Russians who weren't prepared.

[mike]

If you translate this tweet, it appears that the Russians may have used a thermobaric bomb in Kharkiv just a bit ago. Interesting how explosion aftermath resembles the old mushroom cloud of atomic weapons.

[Szdfan]

How wonderful to be able to chose to live in the peace of God. I have no concern that whatever happens it will be something that God allows to happen as He is omnipotent. I just need to trust that He allows what He allows to happen for His purposes. I can rest in that.

I don’t disagree with this, but it’s a lot easier to proclaim the peace and goodness of God when you’re not the target of rocket attacks or invasion.

Yes, we can sing and speak about peace but it is another thing to really experience the peace Jesus gives in any and all circumstances.

I believe scripture says we can abide in the peace of God in any conflict this world brings about. His peace, as spoken of in John 14:27, He calls 'My peace'. That peace is a 'peace that passes all understanding'. It is a gift from God not something we can attain by ourselves. The world's peace depends on circumstances. Jesus' peace does not. And He commands us to not be afraid or troubled.

Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid.

From https://www.biblestudytools.com/john/14-27.html

The peace Christ gives is true, solid, and substantial; the peace the world, the men, and things of it give, is a false one; and whilst they cry, "peace, peace, sudden destruction is at hand": the peace of the world is at best but an external one, but the peace Christ is the giver of, is internal; the peace the world affords is a very transient, unstable, and short lived one, but the peace of Christ is lasting and durable; the peace of the world will not support under the troubles of it, but the peace which Christ gives, cheerfully carries his people through all the difficulties and exercises of this life: and as these differ in kind, so likewise in the manner of giving, and in the persons to whom they are given; the world gives peace in words only, Christ in deed; the world gives feignedly, Christ heartily; the world gives it for its own advantage, Christ for his people's sake; the world gives its peace to the men of it, to the ungodly, none to the godly, whom it hates; Christ gives his; not to the wicked, for there is no peace to them, but to the saints, the excellent in the earth.

In my experience, I have, at times, chosen to abide in His peace and other times allowed the world, through it's various means, rob me of that peace. I think this is often called 'concern' when it really is a state of anxiousness and even fear. This anxiousness shows up often, especially when discussing current events. It is like singing 'He's got the whole world in His hands', yet be anxious about what God is allowing to happen. When I fully trust Him, His peace is restored in me.

Paul writes -

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

The key is found in that text in how our minds and hearts are guarded from missing out on experiencing the peace of God.

Again, I don't disagree. I think, however, that these proclamations of the "peace of Christ" come across badly in response to someone else's suffering. None of us here are facing a foreign invasion or rocket bombardments. My spirit and heart hurt in response to the suffering that is going on.

I think a sense of peace about my own suffering in life is ok. I think responding to other people's suffering by proclaiming how much peace you have comes across to me as tone-deaf (at best) and patronizing and self-centered (at worst). I'm not accusing you of these things, I'm just sharing how it comes across to me.

The scriptures also tell us to weep with those who weep. While the peace that comes with Christ is part of the good news, it's not just an esoteric otherworldly peace either -- it's also a profound empathy for those who suffer and struggle.