Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Ken]

"War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

--International Tribunal at Nuremburg

[temporal1]

Wanting to get a picture of contemporary Ukraine, i viewed this (documentary?) .. it’s about 5 years old, i think.
The full video is 1 hr 39 min. Depressing.

Trailer / Ukraine: Democracy to Chaos


From this, Ukraine’s geographic location, political history with Russia, natural resources, it seems destined for chronic unrest.
If Ukraine prevailed, Russia would not leave them in peace, if Russia prevailed, Ukraine would be angry, at least.

An ESL personal opinion from UK: (not Anabaptist)

.. For the past number of yrs NATO are playing war games not far from the Russian border.
They harass Russia on almost every issue. NATO somewhat operate out of the Ukraine.
The sutituation is like Russia, Cuba, America in 60's.

Pr Putin was probably better of saying he is invading Ukraine and will stay until NATO gets far away as possible from the Russian border. NATO are basically USING Ukraine etc to START a War with Russia.

Few yrs ago Pr Obama and David Cameroon harassed Russia when they held the Winter Olympics, protesting because Pr Putin and Russia wouldn't hand children over to ... There were other incidents of harassment over the yrs.

NATO have stirred the pot between Ukraine and Russia for years.
China prob realise they will be next and may join Russia V NATO....

NATO are pretending they are on the outside, but are openly supplying Ukraine with weapons which could make them legit targets by thousands of sleeper Russians and Chinese Army agents throughout Europe.
The EU haven't a clue what they are getting themselves into.

Six weeks ago Boris Johnsons job was on the line because of the people and vaccines, he went over to Russian border and everything has kicked off.
Many people are saying Russia are not as quilty as media are saying they are.
America are only .. day out of Afganastan and are looking to help start a War in Europe.

??? What to believe?
There is always more than that made public. People see things from different perspectives.

(i think) it’s important to get an honest understanding of what NATO is about in this.

[mike]

[temporal1]

It’s probably important for Putin to have a way out. The sooner the better.

Russia is a permanent member of UN Security Council.

“Russia vetoes UN Security Council resolution demanding it withdraw from Ukriane”
Eleven of 15 council members support resolution that was co-sponsored by almost 70 nations ‘deploring’ Russia’s aggression;
China, India and UAE abstain
https://www.timesofisrael.com/russia-ve ... m-ukriane/


“Citing ‘genocide,’ Zelensky asks UN to strip Russia of its Security Council vote”
Ukrainian president makes request after Russia vetoes resolution condemning its invasion
https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky- ... ncil-vote/


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May 2021 / “As Russia tensions simmer, NATO conducts massive war games”
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your ... war-games/

April 2021 / “Russia orders troop pullback but keeps weapons near Ukraine”
https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoin ... r-ukraine/

[Szdfan]

It’s probably important for Putin to have a way out. The sooner the better.

I don't disagree, but I think the evidence suggests that Putin does not at this point want a way out. Putting Russia's nuclear forces on alert in response to sanctions and harsh words is an escalation that the West is wisely ignoring.

I don't expect the Ukrainians will be able to hold out forever, but this is a mess that will end badly for everyone involved.

[Soloist]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/fac ... 952717001/

Here is some of the propaganda pointed out. It doesn't seem like they fact checked any of the pro-Russian stuff just the Ukraine stuff.

Beats me how they can deescalate this... seems like they have made it impossible for Putin to save face with the heavy pressure. What are they suppose to do though?

[Szdfan]

Beats me how they can deescalate this... seems like they have made it impossible for Putin to save face with the heavy pressure. What are they suppose to do though?

There's no way for Putin to save face at this point. Even if he's successful at this point and the Russians do take Kiev in the next few days, this mess will continue for the foreseeable future. I think that's why Putin is doubling down.

[Josh]

Or, more accurately, the West is doubling down. They could just agree to never admit Ukr. into NATO.

[temporal1]

A not-U.S. personal opinion:

.. NATO thinks it's acceptable to have missiles in half a dozen European countries aimed at Russia.
The US and UK have created CUBA2.

Bet if NATO pulled their weapons of Mass destruction out of bordering Russian countries,
Russia would leave the Ukraine.

We don’t want to think of NATO as being complicit, we LIKE black+white answers. NATO/good, Russia/bad.
But. What-if? This is a big bet! ^^^ However .. .. ??

After reading on this forum, and viewing the Ukraine documentary, and witnessing the enthusiasm Ukraine has to take on Russia,
outside divine intervention, i see lose-lose, no matter outtcome. This is a country destined for chronic misery. i’m sorry to say.

It appears, no matter who prevails in the moment, unrest will continue. It may not be a moment. It may be decades.

There are winners:
There are always wartime profiteers. That is established fact. Complicit to what extent??

- - - - - -

Or, more accurately, the West is doubling down. They could just agree to never admit Ukr. into NATO.

The UN and NATO have some interesting/shocking bedfellows.
i guess that’s part of the idea.

So much that happens is just experimental, without admitting it.
There is so much at stake, they can’t be honest about it. “We don’t know what we’re doing.”

[temporal1]

Also. When all else fails, ASK TRUMP.

I’ve said this before-
but I think his aggressive and unpredictable negotiating style may advantage him with dictators and autocrats -
like Kim Jong Un, over and against more diplomatic and placating presidents like Obama.