Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[temporal1]

Adam Ford / Not the Bee

“New video: Here's why Putin is invading Ukraine right now”
https://notthebee.com/article/heres-why ... -right-now



Opinions. Opinions.

[RZehr]

Maybe this will give the world something focus on besides Covid-19.

[HondurasKeiser]

I haven't seen anybody of prominence calling for the US to wage war against Russia, although there are many accusations that a stronger US stance could have somehow prevented this, and that America would be ill-prepared for such a conflict due to various things. But there seems to be unity on imposing strong sanctions. I know that sanctions are generally seen as not making much difference, but weren't the strictures placed on Germany after WW1 by the Allies a form of economic sanctions? As such, they demonstrate that sanctions can give rise to extreme tensions that can lead to terrible consequences down the road.

Not sanctions...the Allies forced reparations onto Germany to punish them for the war that were seen as humiliating by the Germans.

Arguably it was, to some extent, western sanctions (or refusal to engage economically) that led to the downfall of the Soviet Union in the first place. But that process took decades and decades until the whole edifice was so unstable it finally crumbled.

Also an arms race, am I correct?

[temporal1]

Maybe this will give the world something focus on besides Covid-19.

Inflation.
Increased violence - and despair.
Unresolved border problems.
Roe v Wade.
Men dominating college women’s sports.
Degrading and censoring language and literature.
Degrading and censoring Christians.
Degrading traditional families.
Degrading men.

Failed policies.

Trillions in added spending, no reason to trust oversight. Or competence. No reason to believe anyone even knows what “trillions” mean. An unending blank check for gov spending. A lot of bad will result. Beyond our lifetimes.

[mike]

I haven't seen anybody of prominence calling for the US to wage war against Russia, although there are many accusations that a stronger US stance could have somehow prevented this, and that America would be ill-prepared for such a conflict due to various things. But there seems to be unity on imposing strong sanctions. I know that sanctions are generally seen as not making much difference, but weren't the strictures placed on Germany after WW1 by the Allies a form of economic sanctions? As such, they demonstrate that sanctions can give rise to extreme tensions that can lead to terrible consequences down the road.

Not sanctions...the Allies forced reparations onto Germany to punish them for the war that were seen as humiliating by the Germans.

Yes. But like reparations, heavy sanctions can exact a real economic toll on a nation or group, and as such are an act of retaliation and/or punishment that have real effects and make already adversarial relationships worse.

[Robert]

And the heavy sanctions start.

[Ken]

Not sanctions...the Allies forced reparations onto Germany to punish them for the war that were seen as humiliating by the Germans.

Arguably it was, to some extent, western sanctions (or refusal to engage economically) that led to the downfall of the Soviet Union in the first place. But that process took decades and decades until the whole edifice was so unstable it finally crumbled.

Also an arms race, am I correct?

Yes, of course. Although that part was self-inflicted as were most of the problems in the former USSR.

[Josh]

Protesting in Russia has been always been a much riskier proposition than in the US or Canada. The fact that anyone is protesting at all is remarkable and says a lot about how at least some Russians are feeling about this.

Last I checked, protesters in Ottawa and D.C. also get arbitrarily arrested. I'm sure Russia says their protesters are "insurrectionists" and "rioters" too.

[Josh]

The native peoples of Ukraine are/were a distinctive ethnic group, with their own languages and cultures. (Plural to include the Tatars, who were ran out of Crimia by the Soviets, and now again in 2014 by the Russian occupation.

By that argument, the peoples of Donetsk People's Republic, Luhansk People's Republic, and the Republic of Crimea are also their own distinctive ethnic groups with different languages and cultures from the rest of the Ukraine.

(The Mennonites who did not emigrate prior to this also went through this same treatment, as did the Jewish people there as well - to an even greater extent.) I just do not think that the "real" Ukrainians are favorable to Russian rule. One of the policies of the Soviet era was to encourage ethnic Russians to spread into all of the satellite "nations" controlled by the USSR. None of those peoples really WANTED to be ruled by that foreign power, or give up their own languages and cultures to be Russified.

How do you define what "real" Ukrainians are? If a given ethnic group should have its own state, OK then, but the U.S. has not agreed with this when it comes to Abkhazia or the disputed parts of Armenia & Azerbaijan. And what lines should be drawn? How far back in history should we go? To follow this logic to its conclusion, Turkey needs to be returned to Greece, the U.K. to Rome, and Taiwan to the Formosans.

If we decide that the "great powers" can be multicultural, multiethnic states, OK then, but then there's no reason for Ukraine (and the other satellite states) to be independent from the Russian Federation. What this really boils down to is the great powers simply doing whatever they want: and stoking ethnic tensions and encouraging breakaway states is something the U.S. notoriously did with Kosovo. Russia is simply doing the same thing now.

[Josh]

I haven't seen anybody of prominence calling for the US to wage war against Russia, although there are many accusations that a stronger US stance could have somehow prevented this, and that America would be ill-prepared for such a conflict due to various things. But there seems to be unity on imposing strong sanctions. I know that sanctions are generally seen as not making much difference, but weren't the strictures placed on Germany after WW1 by the Allies a form of economic sanctions? As such, they demonstrate that sanctions can give rise to extreme tensions that can lead to terrible consequences down the road.

Not sanctions...the Allies forced reparations onto Germany to punish them for the war that were seen as humiliating by the Germans.

Arguably it was, to some extent, western sanctions (or refusal to engage economically) that led to the downfall of the Soviet Union in the first place. But that process took decades and decades until the whole edifice was so unstable it finally crumbled.

And that won't work anymore unless you get the other heavyweight in the room, China, to cooperate with these sanctions. So far, Russia and China have been building ties - during the Communist era, they were outright enemies since the 1960s. The empire that should be concerned about its downfall is the West; they aren't exactly making friends right now, whereas China Friendship Plan is looking like a very appealing option to much of the rest of the world.