Lisa Miller case

General Christian Theology
Ken
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Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:41 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:51 pm Lisa Miller pleads guilty.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdny/pr/vi ... ernational
May God have mercy on the souls who rendered this judgment that they may someday repent before it is too late, and they find themselves before the righteous Judge.
She pled guilty. No one else rendered judgement but her.

According to the article, sentencing is scheduled for June 9th, 2022.
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Soloist

Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by Soloist »

Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:51 pm Lisa Miller pleads guilty.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdny/pr/vi ... ernational
This actually sounds like good news, although it's sad that it had to be a crime. It seems like the child endangerment charges were dropped, and she'll be getting out by this summer instead of the 8 plus years that she was facing. If you remove the same sex marriage side of it, I'm sure most of the people here would approve of the idea of breaking the law by fleeing the country rather than allow their child to remain in an abusive situation, even if it meant that they had to face prison for it. This also may help protect her daughter's dignity, so good on her.
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temporal1

Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:41 pm
Ernie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:51 pm Lisa Miller pleads guilty.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdny/pr/vi ... ernational
May God have mercy on the souls who rendered this judgment that they may someday repent before it is too late, and they find themselves before the righteous Judge.

i’m sickened knowing of what all this woman and her child had to endure, and will carry scars forward, along with others involved, directly, and indirectly, esp families separated by prison time.

from all evidence, to score legal precedents in courts for homosexual bloc interests.

Josh, this might be a time for you to review the ways LJ was not connected with the child, not biologically or legally.
i’m not close to the case, others are. but, if former details shared are correct, this should be a chilling moment in today’s society.

if LJ is neither a biological nor legal parent, this becomes a case of “i want to be or i feel like” a parent, so i am.
it makes a mockery of all former laws about parents, bio/adopted, and even legal guardians.

may this serve as a warning about the gravity of bringing new life into the world.
the last thing any loving parent wants is to witness their child used as a pawn in courts of law.

if i’m mispeaking, i apologize. it’s very painful to read about.
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Josh

Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by Josh »

Ken wrote: ↑Mon Feb 21, 2022 6:53 pmShe pled guilty. No one else rendered judgement but her.

According to the article, sentencing is scheduled for June 9th, 2022.
Ken,

Stop defending child abusers. You seem to take some kind of sick pleasure in this.

As has been pointed out here many times, Janet was a person with no biological connection to this child and no family connection either - and until several laws were changed, no legal connection either. The LGBT lobby decided to pick up her case as a lightning rod and that's why it got so much attention.

The real question is why you seem to celebrate putting someone like her in prison. Do you think this is some kind of victory for justice?
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temporal1

Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by temporal1 »

If i recall, the first court, in Virginia, granted custody of the child to LM.

This article seems to bring some fullness into the overall situation, about bad ideas, consequences, and victims.
It was about testing new law, establishing legal precedents.

The timing caught LM and her child up as it would not have in all history, in any country.

“The Tragic Case of Lisa Miller and the Consequences of Redefining Family”
https://www.christianheadlines.com/colu ... amily.html
.. In 2004, Miller and Jenkins asked the Vermont Family Court to legally dissolve their civil union. The court agreed and awarded Miller primary custody. However, in an unprecedented move, the court awarded visitation rights to Jenkins.

To that point, though she had agreed to pay child support, Jenkins had no legally recognized parental relationship with Isabella.
She had only lived with Isabella during the first year of the child’s life, but the court treated Jenkins as if she were a biological or adoptive parent.

It’s difficult to imagine a court doing this, for example, in the case of an unrelated live-in boyfriend.

Later that year, a Virginia court ruled that Miller was Isabella’s sole legal parent.
However, Jenkins appealed, arguing that the Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act required Virginia to honor the Vermont court’s ruling. Also at play was the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act, a federal statute designed to prevent states from being forced to recognize the civil unions of other states. Despite all this, in the end, the Virginia Supreme Court sided with Jenkins. ..

From a Christian perspective, a moral perspective, a human+humane perspective, focusing on the best for the child, JJ could have and would have supported LM as the biological and competent mother. They might have avoided years of no-contact. This, without any legal drama.

The political bloc is focused on prevailing in courtrooms. Self-sacrificial love is not on the radar.
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Josh

Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by Josh »

Something important to point out is that courts can make decisions or legislatures pass laws, but that does not automatically make what they do "lawful". In the Soviet Union is was "illegal" to meet for church, but it was certainly still lawful. In Nazi Germany, it was "illegal" to hide Jews so they wouldn't go to concentration camps, but doing so was absolutely lawful.

Likewise, everything Lisa Miller did (and those who helped her) was lawful. Those who have acted against are unlawful.

Ultimately, if one of us were asked to confess if we are guilty of being Christians - I hope we would plead guilty. Lisa Miller pled guilty to protecting her child from an abusive homosexual that wanted to prey on her child. May we all find ourselves "guilty" of such a thing if we face the same.
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temporal1

Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by temporal1 »

Of all the prayers over the years for all involved in this case, my most fervent prayer was for JJ to be touched to abandon litigation, to choose to put the child before herself, to do what might have been personally very painful to seek peace for the child and with her mother.

Dedicated parents often choose an unsung meek+selfless path that can be painful for years - but is rewarded later. Even on earth! Many believe it’s Basic Parenting, “what parents do.”

Of course, in JJ’s case, it went beyond her personal sacrifice, the bloc supporting+funding her would have presented an added formidable challenge, even if she personally wanted to withdraw from litigation. No doubt pressures are extreme. The ugliness of what goes on behind the scenes is deliberately hidden. A carefully crafted presentation goes on display.

i joined Ken Miller and others who prayed for judges to rule wisely.
i pray for voting people to stop voting for (bad decisions) as the above article describes it. one right after the other.

Like Roe versus Wade, misery will follow. This case was never intended to be the close of this one story.

Years ago, we had a friend who was a family law attorney, he went on to serve as a local judge for years.
His advice: “Keep your children OUT of courtrooms!” He told us courts are NOT the answer for children, they are not set up for it.

i took his words to heart. shuddering to think of awful things he witnesses and must rule on.
i prayed for JJ to choose another path.
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temporal1

Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by temporal1 »

.. It’s difficult to imagine a court doing this, for example, in the case of an unrelated live-in boyfriend.

Pandora’s Box is WIDE OPEN.
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Ken
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Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by Ken »

temporal1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:19 am
.. It’s difficult to imagine a court doing this, for example, in the case of an unrelated live-in boyfriend.

Pandora’s Box is WIDE OPEN.
It's actually not difficult to imagine at all if the live-in boyfriend was in a common-law marriage with the mother, both of them were listed on the birth certificate, and the child had been given both of their last names as was the case here.

Custody cases involving non-biological parents are actually pretty common.
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Robert
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Re: Lisa Miller case

Post by Robert »

Ken wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:31 am Custody cases involving non-biological parents are actually pretty common.
This has been a challenging case for me to find a side. I do understand the need to protect the child, but false claims happen a lot in these things.

I also understand the desire to keep the child out of a destructive life, but same sex relationships, while I may disagree with them on religious reasons, are not in themselves harmful to a child legally. I do not want a government deciding on my morality.
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