Poll: Freedom Convoy and Related Protests

[temporal1]

.. I think the fact that almost half of the money raised by the “Freedom Convoy” came from outside Canada is a newsworthy item — it suggests some of the ways the protests are being co-opted by the right in the US and how they are now interfering with Canadian politics.

How i wish co-opting+interfering would not be allowed, not in state elections, federal, and certainly not international.
Exporting U.S. lib policies, even by way of U.S. Foreign Aid: STINKS. Corporations and others are THICK into it.

It’s disgusting and shameful.
Because the Public Treasury is involved, everyone who pays taxes has a vested interest in ending these practices.
People can also, vote with their wallets, and avoid business with private industry involved in interfering internationally.

i’m with you 100%. Equally and across the board.

[Ernie]

Over the centuries, non-resistant, law abiding, respectful citizens (in democratic societies and sometimes in other situations) have had quite a bit of success in getting relief from government mandates using the appeal method. One local government leader told me, "Thank you for being forthright with us about what you want to do. We will let you do what you want to do under these conditions." (the conditions were very reasonable and made perfect sense to me.) To others in our church who just did things that violated local ordinances, the local government said something to this effect, "Stop trying to sneak things under the radar. Be forthright with us! We want to work with you, but the only way we can do that is if you are upfront with us."

When it comes to personal relationships, and relationships with church leaders, business leaders, and organizational leaders, I have had quite a bit of success using the respectful, appeal method. I've gotten permission to do things and blessing to do things from churches, and organizations and governments, that onlookers never thought possible. People have looked at me in wide-eyed disbelief, asking, "How in the world did this happen?"
I don't take any credit for any of this, since I have simply followed the counsel and example of mentors who have showed me the way.

In light of the above, I think the appeal method still has validity today - if people are willing to get into the right frame of mind and conduct prior to making the appeals.

[temporal1]

Szd:
Protests movements get co-opted all the time by others who use the momentum to further their own agenda. Even if the Freedom Convoy had nothing to do the Ambassador Bridge, their protest in downtown Ottawa helped feed it.

You tend to lump all of the BLM protests in one lump, even though there may be multiple actors involved that don’t really have much to do with each other.

This is an excellent example for you to reverse and read for yourself. i recommend it.

For me, the tipping point is the formation of organized political blocs which exist for the twofold purpose of gaining political muscle with which to bully, and, gaining access to the Public Treasury. These actions fundamentally change important “voices of citizens of democratic republics” to minority political blocs intended to overwhelm the majority. They do not use their own funds. They pirate the Public Treasury for partisan interests. Including free access to gov schools, even promotion in gov schools.

It might be impossible to put a dollar figure on it. “Priceless?”

It all began decades ago, with the best intentions. By now it’s a formula pattern exploited+propagated, normalized to the point too many accept it as if it were God’s law. Because God’s law is no longer commonly recognized, no longer welcome in the mainstream, no questions asked.

[temporal1]

Over the centuries, non-resistant, law abiding, respectful citizens (in democratic societies and sometimes in other situations) have had quite a bit of success in getting relief from government mandates using the appeal method. One local government leader told me, "Thank you for being forthright with us about what you want to do. We will let you do what you want to do under these conditions." (the conditions were very reasonable and made perfect sense to me.) To others in our church who just did things that violated local ordinances, the local government said something to this effect, "Stop trying to sneak things under the radar. Be forthright with us! We want to work with you, but the only way we can do that is if you are upfront with us."

When it comes to personal relationships, and relationships with church leaders, business leaders, and organizational leaders, I have had quite a bit of success using the respectful, appeal method. I've gotten permission to do things and blessing to do things from churches, and organizations and governments, that onlookers never thought possible. People have looked at me in wide-eyed disbelief, asking, "How in the world did this happen?"
I don't take any credit for any of this, since I have simply followed the counsel and example of mentors who have showed me the way.

In light of the above, I think the appeal method still has validity today - if people are willing to get into the right frame of mind and conduct prior to making the appeals.

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking- ... protesters

Four premiers have stated their discontent with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's reported decision to invoke the Emergencies Act.

Premier Scott Moe, along with Jason Kenney, and Francois Legault voiced their displeasure with the move, with Moe tweeting: "The illegal blockades must end, but police already have sufficient tools to enforce the law and clear the blockades, as they did over the weekend in Windsor."
"Therefore, Saskatchewan does not support the Trudeau government invoking the Emergencies Act. If the federal government does proceed with this measure, I would hope it would only be invoked in provinces that request it, as the legislation allows."

Premier Kenney called the gesture "unhelpful, stating at a press conference on Monday: "At this point for the federal government to reach in over top of us without offering anything, in particular, would frankly be unhelpful."
"We do not wish to have a state of emergency in Quebec. It's not necessary and it's time to bring together not divide," Legault said.
Manitoba Premier Heather Stefanson said in a statement released on Monday: "I am not currently satisfied the Emergencies Act should be applied in Manitoba. Winnipeg’s situation is dramatically different from the one in Ottawa. The Emerson border situation is very different than the one faced in Windsor."
According to the CBC, Trudeau told his caucus last night that the measures would be put into place to handle protestors across Canada, though there are no plans to send in the military.

You would think it would just be easier to sit down and negotiate with the truckers.
They do not seem to be unreasonable.

More effort is made in communicating with N Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, et al.
These are law-abiding, tax-paying legal citizens, unarmed, approaching in numbers: in peace.

[ken_sylvania]

The "Grey Lady" now has an article reporting on the contributors to the protest - their source is stolen data. Does that tell us anything about their ethics? I think it does.

Meh. The Pentagon Papers were stolen. Wikileaks released stolen information.
I think the fact that almost half of the money raised by the “Freedom Convoy” came from outside Canada is a newsworthy item — it suggests some of the ways the protests are being co-opted by the right in the US and how they are now interfering with Canadian politics.

And so that makes it right to profit from stolen information, huh? Let us do evil, that good may come?
Even if one can make an argument that it is moral to utilize property stolen from the Government, does that same argument carry forward to information/property stolen from private citizens?
Or are you taking the position that if it is legal, it is moral? I hope not.

[Ernie]

The "Grey Lady" now has an article reporting on the contributors to the protest - their source is stolen data. Does that tell us anything about their ethics? I think it does.

Meh. The Pentagon Papers were stolen. Wikileaks released stolen information.
I think the fact that almost half of the money raised by the “Freedom Convoy” came from outside Canada is a newsworthy item — it suggests some of the ways the protests are being co-opted by the right in the US and how they are now interfering with Canadian politics.

And so that makes it right to profit from stolen information, huh? Let us do evil, that good may come?
Even if one can make an argument that it is moral to utilize property stolen from the Government, does that same argument carry forward to information/property stolen from private citizens?
Or are you taking the position that if it is legal, it is moral? I hope not.

In fact they had been donating food to the homeless including homeless shelters because they had so much more given than they needed. I heard one resident of the Byward market area a place you might not normally go at night say that for the first time ever he feels safe in this area at night. Crime is actually down according to local people.

Doing more good, while also doing bad, does not even the scales, no matter whether it is Portland or Ottawa or on the Internet. IMO, anyone who thinks that because something results in good for some it is praiseworthy and virtuous (even if it creates bad for others), such persons have a theology more akin to Islam and Augustinian Just War, than true Christianity. The former believe that you put actions on scales and hope the good outweighs the bad.

[Robert]

Meh. The Pentagon Papers were stolen. Wikileaks released stolen information.
I think the fact that almost half of the money raised by the “Freedom Convoy” came from outside Canada is a newsworthy item — it suggests some of the ways the protests are being co-opted by the right in the US and how they are now interfering with Canadian politics.

And most the money raised to elect Senator Warnock in Georgia came from outside Georgia. This is an issue that happens a lot of places. Only way to fix it is to limit people's freedoms.

[Robert]

Doing more good, while also doing bad, does not even the scales

Can you share what bad you see the truckers in Ottawa doing?

[temporal1]

.. I think the fact that almost half of the money raised by the “Freedom Convoy” came from outside Canada is a newsworthy item — it suggests some of the ways the protests are being co-opted by the right in the US and how they are now interfering with Canadian politics.

And most the money raised to elect Senator Warnock in Georgia came from outside Georgia. This is an issue that happens a lot of places. Only way to fix it is to limit people's freedoms.

Good example. Not an isolated example, not in the U.S. or internationally.

i’m not sure about “limiting people’s freedoms.”
for one thing, the biggest interferrence is done by gov, and corporations.

the question is, how to protect local, state/province, and soveriegn state interests, with large free-flowing investments from outside persons/groups, who do not live there, but want to determine/BUY outcomes (in their own favor).
internationally, outside pressures to push for-profit corporate abortions, and homosexuality have done untold damage.
they BULLY.

so. it seems, if countries are to have any hope of autonomy, powerful “busy bodies” need to be kept out.
NOT some, or 1 side!

ALL need to step aside, let local, state, federal elections mean something. Other than “who has the most outside money??”
This is a really ugly phenom. i doubt history will be kind.

[Szdfan]

Szd:
Protests movements get co-opted all the time by others who use the momentum to further their own agenda. Even if the Freedom Convoy had nothing to do the Ambassador Bridge, their protest in downtown Ottawa helped feed it.

You tend to lump all of the BLM protests in one lump, even though there may be multiple actors involved that don’t really have much to do with each other.

This is an excellent example for you to reverse and read for yourself. i recommend it.

For me, the tipping point is the formation of organized political blocs which exist for the twofold purpose of gaining political muscle with which to bully, and, gaining access to the Public Treasury. These actions fundamentally change important “voices of citizens of democratic republics” to minority political blocs intended to overwhelm the majority. They do not use their own funds. They pirate the Public Treasury for partisan interests. Including free access to gov schools, even promotion in gov schools.

It might be impossible to put a dollar figure on it. “Priceless?”

It all began decades ago, with the best intentions. By now it’s a formula pattern exploited+propagated, normalized to the point too many accept it as if it were God’s law. Because God’s law is no longer commonly recognized, no longer welcome in the mainstream, no questions asked.

I know this "political bloc" thing is a big issue for you, but over the years that I've never seen you criticize conservative political blocs, like the Moral Majority or Trumpism or Christian Conservatives or the Tea Party. To me it seems completely unfair that for you, only liberal activists are "political blocs." At times I feel bullied by conservative activists as I assume you feel bullied by liberals.

Activism on the left and the right share similarities and similar dynamics. Pretending that one side is just pure grassroots and the other side is just political machinery is fiction.