A Thread to Raise Questions or Challenge Assumptions

[Josh]

Slight correction: I think native Haitians can operate “NGOs” in Haiti. For example they still run the orphanage in question. But they run it according to Haitian standards which is very different than Western organisations.

[Ken]

Slight correction: I think native Haitians can operate “NGOs” in Haiti. For example they still run the orphanage in question. But they run it according to Haitian standards which is very different than Western organisations.

Of course. And I expect the extent to which they need any help, it is largely going to be in the form of resources like money to pay things like rents, staff, food, supplies, medicine, clothing, school supplies, And not so much in the form of white American volunteers. Same as with any NGO in the US.

[Ernie]

Maintaining 6 (or 10) feet of distance at all times is basically impossible. It’s sad although entertaining to see, for example, in an airport, six feet marked off for standing in lines - and of course nobody is that far apart. It’s utterly absurd.

The same goes for church. Actually staying that far apart is quite silly, and there’s no reason to do it.

Several people on MN asked what I would recommend for church in-person church gatherings. I responded to that inquiry but making a list of mitigation measures that should be attempted simultaneously. To single out one of those mitigation measures by itself and call it "silly" does not contribute to respectful dialogue. Respectful dialogue happens when people are seriously interested in understanding the perspective of the other.

[Josh]

Maintaining 6 (or 10) feet of distance at all times is basically impossible. It’s sad although entertaining to see, for example, in an airport, six feet marked off for standing in lines - and of course nobody is that far apart. It’s utterly absurd.

The same goes for church. Actually staying that far apart is quite silly, and there’s no reason to do it.

Several people on MN asked what I would recommend for church in-person church gatherings. I responded to that inquiry but making a list of mitigation measures that should be attempted simultaneously. To single out one of those mitigation measures by itself and call it "silly" does not contribute to respectful dialogue. Respectful dialogue happens when people are seriously interested in understanding the perspective of the other.

Staying six feet apart from other people is both silly, disrespectful, dehumanising, and also has zero basis in science.

The only reason to do it is to get respect from the world, and even in the world, it’s rare to see anyone still trying to do it.

[Ernie]

Staying six feet apart from other people is both silly, disrespectful, dehumanising, and also has zero basis in science.
The only reason to do it is to get respect from the world, and even in the world, it’s rare to see anyone still trying to do it.

Again, you are singling out the physical distancing without including the other conditions and mitigation measures that I wrote about. I see very little benefit in physical distancing in environments where people spend many hours together. I also see very little benefit (if any) if this is the only mitigation measure that is attempted.
The language you use above is neither kind nor respectful nor conducive to dialogue. It is dehumanizing to talk this way to people who have a different perspective than yours.
Whether physical distancing is dehumanizing depends on which part of the human condition is being considered as well as which humans and in which situations. I have often advocated for making exceptions and taking risk to do so. I also made it clear as to which situations I am talking about.
Yes, I expect the science to be debated yet for a long time.
And no, I do not recommend mitigation measures in order to get respect from the world.

[Ernie]

And since it is sometimes easy to miss the forest because of the trees, I will post this here again so that it is clear what I am promoting and what I am not...

How is your church protecting the vulnerable at this point?

I believe there are ways for us to meet together in-person as believers, while still exercising mitigation measures. I have repeatedly said that I am fine with making exceptions to the state's mandates, whenever doing so would bring spiritual refreshment to shut-ins or may help advance the kingdom of God.
Initially we as a church did not meet for six weeks or so as a large group while we did research on the severity of the virus.
Twice since then, we have cancelled large group church services for a couple Sundays while Covid was going through our church community. The last time was about a month ago.

If a Covid outbreak is expected to be imminent… ("similar to a tornado warning" to use OJ's term)
1. Talk to others from a distance of 6-10 feet away or wear a mask when possible.
2. If you are inclined to shake hands with people or believe that Christians should practice the Holy Kiss during a pandemic of this nature, do so and then back away.
3. Use sanitizer or wash your hands with soap and warm water after touching things others have recently touched.
4. Cough into your elbow rather than into your hand.
5. Meet outdoors when possible. When meeting indoors, have airflow through the building if possible.
6. Meet in smaller groups rather than larger groups.
7. Where a mask when riding in a vehicle with non-family members.
8. Sing in open areas with some physical distance between one's self and non-family members.

In addition,
If you or a family member have been exposed to someone with Covid, self-quarantine or take additional measures to help protect others from getting your virus.

And here is some advice from Robert that is always timely...

1. Eat low sugar balanced meals. Protein and vegetables are good for you. Carbs convert to sugar. You body needs them, but excess is not good for your immune system since they convert to sugar in your system.
2. Take multivitamins. They are cheap and do not hurt. It just makes sure you have a balanced amount of vitamins your body needs to run on.
3. Get outside and get some exercise. Walk and enjoy the world.
4. Don't trust all the propaganda from the governments of this world. Some is good and some is distorted for political purposes.

[Ernie]

Ernie, have you ever considered the approach you propose is a lot closer to Zwingli’s than to Blaurock or Grebel’s?

I'm rather confused... Blaurock is the one who later repented of taking over the pulpit from another preacher if I remember correctly.

Yet if he hadn't done that and had followed Zwingli's advice to just wait for gradual change, the Anabaptist movement probably wouldn't exist now. Radical action was needed. Gradual, slow reforms didn't work. The end fruit of Zwingli's approach was, well, nothing at all, unless you consider the modern day Presbyterian and Luthern churches a "success".

Perhaps this is due to the original Anabaptist movement being replaced by "conservative Anabaptism" and Die Stille im Lande; it is one that is very much in favour of inaction even what action is strongly needed.

It is good Blaurock repented of his bad attitude. But as far as displacing a priest teaching false doctrine, there is no need to repent for taking over the pulpit from such a man.

Lots of early Anabaptists did not resort to gradual, slow reforms. But they didn't have to take over the pulpits of priests in order to be bold for Christ.
The choices are not gradual, slow reforms, vs. brash zealous actions without knowledge. There are hundreds of options in between these two extremes.

[Dan Z]

If the Biden's apologize (like some other people have done who flouted mask mandates) I will assume they were in the wrong. Until then, I will assume they probably did something wrong, but I will not judge them until I know more of the story.

Q It was not just exiting the restaurant, though. He was walking through the restaurant with no mask on. There is a carveout for people under two or people who are actively eating or drinking. So I’m just curious why the President was doing this.

MS. PSAKI: I think I just addressed it, Peter.

I suppose saying the President was wrong is too humbling...

How refreshing it would’ve been to hear the press secretary say “yeah…they blew it. They should’ve put their masks back on when they were done eating like everyone else was expected to do.”

[Josh]

And why on earth would the press secretary do that?