Coronavirus Outbreak

[Ken]

That's only people over 60, cherry pick much?

I'm not cherry picking. That's what the article says. They are looking at over 60 data because that is mostly who is dying in Israel. And that is who the Israeli Ministry of Health is focusing on for that reason. Feel free to dig out the under 60 death rate data for Israel for vaccinated and unvaccinated and I expect it will show the same thing.

In fact, if you read down to the end of the article they provide it for you. For the past month it is zero. Basically it is only the over 60 age group that is currently dying in Israel and mostly the unvaccinated

Grotto explained that the reason omicron is often milder is “at least partially” related to vaccination among the over 60s. According to ministry figures, on January 31 the death rate per 100,000 people for the over 60s stood at 16.3 for unvaccinated individuals, as opposed to 0.9 for the fully vaccinated.

Official figures for the period of January 4 to February 1 showed that the average daily death rate per 100,000 people stood at zero for those under the age of 60.

The article also looked at Israeli hospitalization rates for the past month, current as of this past week. They basically show the same trends as with the death rates:

[Robert]

[mike]

Looks like Omicron is about over.



In terms of numbers of deaths, this wave was (by a hair) the second deadliest wave of Covid so far. In terms of the rate of deaths, it was the least deadly of all the spikes of Covid.



The winter of 2020-2021 was the deadliest wave of Covid. This winter looks like it may have peaked at about 70% of the daily number of deaths compared to last winter's peak. That does make this a very deadly season of Covid, just not quite as bad as last year.

In my opinion one of the absolute dumbest things we have seen during Covid has been politicians either claiming credit for positive covid trends or placing blame on other politicians for negative trends. As an example:



Just look at the trends charts above. The virus did not care who was president. It did not care who was inaugurated in January 2021. More people have now died from Covid in Biden's presidency than Trump's.

There are STILL an excess number of people dying in the US.



The bottom line is that this virus basically just is what it is. Yes, there are some reasonable things one can do about it, perhaps. But generally there is no magic bullet that will make it go away. It just is. For two years this thing has dominated our lives. One wonders how much longer people will let that continue to be the case for them. I'm glad I'm not in a place where it has to concern me all that much. I feel sorry for those in places and situations where that is not the case.

[nett]

I haven't seen a single piece of of legitimate evidence or data presented by you or Nett or any of the other anti-vaxers here that shows Covid death rates or hospitalization rates are higher for vaccinated than unvaccinated. Especially when controlled for age. Not for the US, not for any individual state, and not for any country that keeps such statistics.

By contrast, one can find the exact opposite for any state, country, or jurisdiction that keeps track of such things. There is just a phenomenal amount of information available from across the planet that all points to the conclusion that vaccinations reduce Covid death rates and hospitalization rates across every age group or subpopulation.

I don't really care about that, the average age of death for COVID is still higher than the average lifespan in the USA, so I couldn't care less about the individual rates. I care about when the global panic ends, since the panic has cost far more lives than COVID itself. We were told the vaccines would end the pandemic, and that is turning out to be FLATLY FALSE. more vaccinated countries are experiencing MORE death.

You're making a very sophomoric mistake by looking at small samples, where control groups are hard to vet, and ignoring the big picture that has obvious control groups. Vaccines aren't doing diddly squat for ending the panic. In fact, the most panicked people I know are violently pro vaccine.

[Ken]

I haven't seen a single piece of of legitimate evidence or data presented by you or Nett or any of the other anti-vaxers here that shows Covid death rates or hospitalization rates are higher for vaccinated than unvaccinated. Especially when controlled for age. Not for the US, not for any individual state, and not for any country that keeps such statistics.

By contrast, one can find the exact opposite for any state, country, or jurisdiction that keeps track of such things. There is just a phenomenal amount of information available from across the planet that all points to the conclusion that vaccinations reduce Covid death rates and hospitalization rates across every age group or subpopulation.

I don't really care about that, the average age of death for COVID is still higher than the average lifespan in the USA, so I couldn't care less about the individual rates. I care about when the global panic ends, since the panic has cost far more lives than COVID itself. We were told the vaccines would end the pandemic, and that is turning out to be FLATLY FALSE. more vaccinated countries are experiencing MORE death.

You're making a very sophomoric mistake by looking at small samples, where control groups are hard to vet, and ignoring the big picture that has obvious control groups. Vaccines aren't doing diddly squat for ending the panic. In fact, the most panicked people I know are violently pro vaccine.

The vaccines have ended the pandemic for the majority who have decided to get vaccinated and maintain their vaccines. It is mostly a pandemic of the unvaccinated now. That's who are still flooding into ICUs and morgues.

I'm looking at small samples? Feel free to show us any large scale set of data from any jurisdiction, state, or nation, that shows fully vaccinated people dying at higher rates than unvaccinated people. Go ahead, I'll wait.

[nett]

I haven't seen a single piece of of legitimate evidence or data presented by you or Nett or any of the other anti-vaxers here that shows Covid death rates or hospitalization rates are higher for vaccinated than unvaccinated. Especially when controlled for age. Not for the US, not for any individual state, and not for any country that keeps such statistics.

By contrast, one can find the exact opposite for any state, country, or jurisdiction that keeps track of such things. There is just a phenomenal amount of information available from across the planet that all points to the conclusion that vaccinations reduce Covid death rates and hospitalization rates across every age group or subpopulation.

I don't really care about that, the average age of death for COVID is still higher than the average lifespan in the USA, so I couldn't care less about the individual rates. I care about when the global panic ends, since the panic has cost far more lives than COVID itself. We were told the vaccines would end the pandemic, and that is turning out to be FLATLY FALSE. more vaccinated countries are experiencing MORE death.

You're making a very sophomoric mistake by looking at small samples, where control groups are hard to vet, and ignoring the big picture that has obvious control groups. Vaccines aren't doing diddly squat for ending the panic. In fact, the most panicked people I know are violently pro vaccine.

The vaccines have ended the pandemic for the majority who have decided to get vaccinated and maintain their vaccines. It is mostly a pandemic of the unvaccinated now. That's who are still flooding into ICUs and morgues.

I'm looking at small samples? Feel free to show us any large scale set of data from any jurisdiction, state, or nation, that shows fully vaccinated people dying at higher rates than unvaccinated people. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Showing that vaccinated people are dying at a higher rate would (will?) be truly terrifying, but I don't need to show that right now to show that vaccines are a failure. High vaccinations rates are not correlated with reduced spread, hospitalizations or death. COVID numbers for 2021 were not that different from 2020 when we had no treatments, and the variants were more virulent. How do you explain this?

Meanwhile, I know 3 fully vaccinated (and boosted) people who are severely sick. The pandemic is not over for them, and they are very frightened, because they believed they were protected. Why do you say such ridiculous, hurtful things? Do you care about people dying and getting sick?

[Ken]

I don't really care about that, the average age of death for COVID is still higher than the average lifespan in the USA, so I couldn't care less about the individual rates. I care about when the global panic ends, since the panic has cost far more lives than COVID itself. We were told the vaccines would end the pandemic, and that is turning out to be FLATLY FALSE. more vaccinated countries are experiencing MORE death.

You're making a very sophomoric mistake by looking at small samples, where control groups are hard to vet, and ignoring the big picture that has obvious control groups. Vaccines aren't doing diddly squat for ending the panic. In fact, the most panicked people I know are violently pro vaccine.

The vaccines have ended the pandemic for the majority who have decided to get vaccinated and maintain their vaccines. It is mostly a pandemic of the unvaccinated now. That's who are still flooding into ICUs and morgues.

I'm looking at small samples? Feel free to show us any large scale set of data from any jurisdiction, state, or nation, that shows fully vaccinated people dying at higher rates than unvaccinated people. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Showing that vaccinated people are dying at a higher rate would (will?) be truly terrifying, but I don't need to show that right now to show that vaccines are a failure. High vaccinations rates are not correlated with reduced spread, hospitalizations or death. COVID numbers for 2021 were not that different from 2020 when we had no treatments, and the variants were more virulent. How do you explain this?

Meanwhile, I know 3 fully vaccinated (and boosted) people who are severely sick. The pandemic is not over for them, and they are very frightened, because they believed they were protected. Why do you say such ridiculous, hurtful things? Do you care about people dying and getting sick?

So out of the entire world. Out of hundreds of different states, nations, and jurisdictions. You can't find one single place where fully vaccinated people have higher death rates or hospitalization rates than unvaccinated people?

Of course vaccinations correlate with lower rates of hospitalization and death. Every single jurisdiction that collects data has shown this. The also reduce Covid spread. The evidence is overwhelming that this is the case. But they do not magically make the pandemic vanish. Especially when large numbers of people choose not to be vaccinated.

[nett]

So out of the entire world. Out of hundreds of different states, nations, and jurisdictions. You can't find one single place where fully vaccinated people have higher death rates or hospitalization rates than unvaccinated people?

Of course vaccinations correlate with lower rates of hospitalization and death. Every single jurisdiction that collects data has shown this. The also reduce Covid spread. The evidence is overwhelming that this is the case. But they do not magically make the pandemic vanish. Especially when large numbers of people choose not to be vaccinated.

Where exactly did the lower rate of death that ends the pandemic start?

[Ken]

Where exactly did the lower rate of death that ends the pandemic start?

The latest data show that vaccinated Americans are 14-times less likely to die than unvaccinated, and that boosted Americans are 97-times less likely to die of Covid than unvaccinated. And that most of those who are vaccinated and boosted and die have multiple comorbidities. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 308759002/ If you are fully vaccinated and boosted and otherwise healthy then your chances of dying of Covid are about equal to or less than the common flu. At this point the pandemic (in terms of severe hospitalizations and deaths) is largely a pandemic of the unvaccinated and otherwise medically vulnerable. That is why some countries like Denmark are lifting most of their Covid measures.

Furthermore, if you cross compare various states it becomes clear that difference in death rates almost perfectly match differences in vaccination rates. The correlation is striking. Let's compare two states with roughly equivalent populations and demographics: Washington and Tennessee.

WA has a population of 7.7 million of which 16.2% (or 1.25 million) are over age 65
TN has a population of 6.9 million of which 17.1% (or 1.18 million) are over age 65.

So relatively similar population sizes and percentage of vulnerable (over age 65) populations.

First let's look at vaccination rates. Since the most vulnerable population and most likely to die of Covid is the over 65 population we can start there. WA has 92% of its over 65 population vaccinated and TN has 83% of it's over 65 population vaccinated. At first glance they don't look that strikingly different, that is a 9 percentage point difference. But, the relevant percentage is the unvaxed percentage, or the inverse of those numbers. WA has 8% of it's over 65 population unvaccinated and TN has 17% of it's over 65 population unvaccinated. If you calculate percent difference, that means that TN has a 113% higher rate of unvaccinated elderly than WA (17 is 113% higher than 8). Since the populations are roughly similar, that means TN has over twice as many unvaccinated elderly as WA.

Now lets look at the death rates. Since the pandemic began, WA has seen a Covid death rate of 145/100,000 and TN has seen a death rate of 333/100,000. If we do the same calculation, that means that TN has a 128% higher Covid death rate than WA (333 is 128% higher than 145). In other words, the difference in unvaccinated percentage (113%) closely correlates with the difference in death rates (128%).

We can do this with any comparable pairs of states that have roughly similar demographics and get the same result. The percentage differences in death rates are strikingly similar to percentage differences in the percentages of populations that are unvaccinated. Especially when we focus in on the most vulnerable portion of the population (over 65) that accounts for the bulk of Covid deaths.

[nett]

Where exactly did the lower rate of death that ends the pandemic start?

The latest data show that vaccinated Americans are 14-times less likely to die than unvaccinated, and that vaccinated and boosted Americans are 97-times less likely to die of Covid than unvaccinated. And that most of those who are vaccinated and boosted and die have multiple comorbidities. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/hea ... 308759002/ If you are fully vaccinated and boosted and otherwise healthy then your chances of dying of Covid are about equal to or less than the common flu. At this point the pandemic (in terms of severe hospitalizations and deaths) is largely a pandemic of the unvaccinated and otherwise medically vulnerable. That is why some countries like Denmark are lifting most of their Covid measures.

Furthermore, if you cross compare various states it becomes clear that difference in death rates almost perfectly match differences in vaccination rates. The correlation is striking. Let's compare two states with roughly equivalent populations and demographics: Washington and Tennessee.

WA has a population of 7.7 million of which 16.2% (or 1.25 million) are over age 65
TN has a population of 6.9 million of which 17.1% (or 1.18 million) are over age 65.

So relatively similar population sizes and percentage of vulnerable (over age 65) populations.

First let's look at vaccination rates. Since the most vulnerable population and most likely to die of Covid is the over 65 population we can start there. WA has 92% of its over 65 population vaccinated and TN has 83% of it's over 65 population vaccinated. At first glance they don't look that strikingly different, that is a 9 percentage point difference. But, the relevant percentage is the unvaxed percentage, or the inverse of those numbers. WA has 8% of it's over 65 population unvaccinated and TN has 17% of it's over 65 population unvaccinated. If you calculate percent difference, that means that TN has a 113% higher rate of unvaccinated elderly than WA (17 is 113% higher than 8). Since the populations are roughly similar, that means TN has over twice as many unvaccinated elderly as WA.

Now lets look at the death rates. Since the pandemic began, WA has seen a Covid death rate of 145/100,000 and TN has seen a death rate of 333/100,000. If we do the same calculation, that means that TN has a 128% higher Covid death rate than WA (333 is 128% higher than 145). In other words, the difference in unvaccinated percentage (113%) closely correlates with the difference in death rates (128%).

We can do this with any comparable pairs of states that have roughly similar demographics and get the same result. The percentage differences in death rates are strikingly similar to percentage differences in the percentages of populations that are unvaccinated. Especially when we focus in on the most vulnerable portion of the population (over 65) that accounts for the bulk of Covid deaths.

Since you seem to have missed the graph I posted. Here it is again. Where did the life-saving vaccinations start?