Haiti Kidnapping

[Szdfan]

If the attitude of Barry Grant (CAM Haiti director) is an indicator, it appears the staff will want to get back to work in Haiti. But CAM as an organization has without a doubt been through a lot during this ordeal so who knows what will happen.

In his story, he basically says that although there have been more kidnappings in recent years, Haiti has always been a place of unrest and violence. It's not as if suddenly Haiti has become a totally different place than it has been, and so missions should not operate there. Haiti is Haiti, as he said.

I think that is probably the perspective of most of us who have lived and worked in Haiti.

This kidnapping was definitely a high-profile event, so it got a lot of attention here in the US and made folks on this end uncomfortable with the risks- but violence, even against missionaries, has historically not been rare in Haiti. For example, during our five years in Haiti, our mission alone had one missionary shot, another couple shot at, car windows smashed out while driving, armed intruders entering our compound more than once, including one night holding many of us at gunpoint and tieing some up, etc. During the same time we knew of numerous other Mennonite missionaries who were robbed, threatened, shot at, held, invaded, and otherwise endangered. Haiti is the wild west in many ways...and there is nothing new about that. But most of us were there with a strong sense of call and the conviction that the Gospel and love of Jesus must go forward to the least of these, regardless of personal danger. As a mission administrator, one of my goals was to try to limit risk - but I obviously couldn't eliminate it all. Also, the security situation tends to ebb and flow...and there have been times we've even needed to pull out for a bit until things "stabilized."

What do you think about missionaries taking their children into high risk situations like Haiti?

[Josh]

Should Christian parents take their children into high-risk situations like L.A. or Chicago?

[Ken]

Should Christian parents take their children into high-risk situations like L.A. or Chicago?

If you are trying to make a point about the risks to children in various parts of the country then at least base it on reality. The most dangerous states for Children are Mississippi, Alabama, Alaska, Idaho, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Montana, South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky, and New Mexico. https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicat ... desc%22%7D

Ohio ranks #21, Illinois ranks #38 and California #45

[Josh]

Should Christian parents take their children into high-risk situations like L.A. or Chicago?

If you are trying to make a point about the risks to children in various parts of the country then at least base it on reality. The most dangerous states for Children are Mississippi, Alabama, Alaska, Idaho, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Montana, South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky, and New Mexico. https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicat ... desc%22%7D

Ohio ranks #21, Illinois ranks #38 and California #45

I listed cities, not states.

Let's ask another question: should you take your children to Watts or the South Side?

[Ken]

Should Christian parents take their children into high-risk situations like L.A. or Chicago?

If you are trying to make a point about the risks to children in various parts of the country then at least base it on reality. The most dangerous states for Children are Mississippi, Alabama, Alaska, Idaho, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Montana, South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky, and New Mexico. https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicat ... desc%22%7D

Ohio ranks #21, Illinois ranks #38 and California #45

I listed cities, not states.

Let's ask another question: should you take your children to Watts or the South Side?

I have taken my children to Los Angeles, most recently last summer. We had a pleasant time and visited 6 different colleges in the region. Including USC which is, in fact, located in South LA. We saw no violence or signs of violence. It is no different from anyplace else. It certainly isn’t Haiti.

[Josh]

I have taken my children to Los Angeles, most recently last summer. We had a pleasant time and visited 6 different colleges in the region. Including USC which is, in fact, located in South LA. We saw no violence or signs of violence. It is no different from anyplace else. It certainly isn’t Haiti.

USC has a large amount of full-time armed security (something you also see in Haiti).

it's true that L.A., Chicago, and Minneapolis aren't having frequent kidnappings yet, but violence is quite bad there, including new stuff like near-daily carjackings. And in a place like S.F., you can pretty much assume your windows will get smashed out of your car if you go downtown. (Or in Kansas City, MO; the last time I was there, my rental car plus a dozen others got their windows smashed by people looking for things to steal like change.)

The specific place I cited is Watts. Are you really going to maintain that Watts is a low-violence paradise?

[Ken]

I have taken my children to Los Angeles, most recently last summer. We had a pleasant time and visited 6 different colleges in the region. Including USC which is, in fact, located in South LA. We saw no violence or signs of violence. It is no different from anyplace else. It certainly isn’t Haiti.

USC has a large amount of full-time armed security (something you also see in Haiti).

it's true that L.A., Chicago, and Minneapolis aren't having frequent kidnappings yet, but violence is quite bad there, including new stuff like near-daily carjackings. And in a place like S.F., you can pretty much assume your windows will get smashed out of your car if you go downtown. (Or in Kansas City, MO; the last time I was there, my rental car plus a dozen others got their windows smashed by people looking for things to steal like change.)

The specific place I cited is Watts. Are you really going to maintain that Watts is a low-violence paradise?

YOU are the one who suggested there is something unchristian about taking your children to Chicago or Los Angeles. It is YOUR argument not mine.

Rural Haiti is obviously extremely dangerous for foreigners due to the rash of kidnappings. You are the one who made the comparison to Chicago and Los Angeles.

[Szdfan]

I was actually asking Dan a serious question —

What do you think about missionaries taking their children into high risk situations like Haiti?

—so I would appreciate it if the trolling and squabbling could stop and not drown out my question.

[Josh]

I was actually asking Dan a serious question —

What do you think about missionaries taking their children into high risk situations like Haiti?

—so I would appreciate it if the trolling and squabbling could stop and not drown out my question.

I think the fact you think Haiti is somehow "high risk" but ignore other situations basically as bad needs to be addressed. And yes, there are parts of America as bad as Haiti in terms of the violence that everyday people suffer. (Indeed, we've been hearing about it from the likes of you for quite a while.)

[Szdfan]

I was actually asking Dan a serious question —

What do you think about missionaries taking their children into high risk situations like Haiti?

—so I would appreciate it if the trolling and squabbling could stop and not drown out my question.

I think the fact you think Haiti is somehow "high risk" but ignore other situations basically as bad needs to be addressed. And yes, there are parts of America as bad as Haiti in terms of the violence that everyday people suffer. (Indeed, we've been hearing about it from the likes of you for quite a while.)

This is a thread on Haiti and foreign missions. Please stop trolling.