Vaccine Mandates a Slippery Slope towards the Surveillance State and Mark of the Beast

[nett]

If I ever said either of these things, would you please provide a link so I can see where I said it and apologize and retract it? If you don't have such a link, and you think making serious, false accusations is a bad thing, would you please retract your accusations?

I think you have a lot of retractions to make about others before you can expect this.

[Josh]

Regardless, you have accused people like me who don't want to use foetal stem cells of disregarding human life by not wanting to use vaccines made with foetal stem cells. This is a really serious accusation.

You have made it clear you have zero respect for our deeply-felt religious beliefs, and that you want to see us unemployed, unable to buy or sell any groceries, and unable to get a job.

Josh, I think these are both blatant lies. I don't believe either of those things, and I doubt that I said them.

If I ever said either of these things, would you please provide a link so I can see where I said it and apologize and retract it? If you don't have such a link, and you think making serious, false accusations is a bad thing, would you please retract your accusations?

Should the government require employers to mandate vaccines for all employees or not?

I seem to recall you supporting such mandates. You also said if you had employees, you would require vaccines.

So, what’s your position? Should people like me be allowed to have a job? Or do you think the government should make my employer fire me and Soloist?

[Bootstrap]

Should the government require employers to mandate vaccines for all employees or not?

I seem to recall you supporting such mandates.

No, I do not support mandates for all employees. And I support religious exemptions for mandates, but not for all roles. For instance, in the assisted living facility where my 90 year old grandmother lives, all employees on-site are required to be vaccinated. That means I would also support programs to help people with religious exemptions find other jobs if vaccination is important to the job they are doing.

You also said if you had employees, you would require vaccines.

I believe I said that I would require vaccines if I ran a medical facility. I would probably require testing and masking for people who are not vaccinated in any face-to-face setting.

So, what’s your position? Should people like me be allowed to have a job? Or do you think the government should make my employer fire me and Soloist?

I think that depends on what kind of job you have, in what kind of setting. Keeping vulnerable people safe is important, so is keeping other employees safe. But I don't want to fire people if it is avoidable. Testing and masks will probably be sufficient in most settings. Reassigning to other roles, remote work ... I would try to find something that works.

[Sudsy]

Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor [perpetual animosity, resentment, strife, fault-finding] and slander be put away from you, along with every kind of malice [all spitefulness, verbal abuse, malevolence]. Be kind and helpful to one another, tender-hearted [compassionate, understanding], forgiving one another [readily and freely], just as God in Christ also forgave you.

Eph 4:31-32 AMP

[nett]

I didn't care for the 'foe' option available on this forum but I have found since using it, when someone's behavior causes me anxiousness, I now put them on my 'foe' list and at times check out their posts in read-only mode to see if their behavior has changed to take them off the list. We also have a personal, messaging facility to deal with each other privately. So, I think we have other means available to privately deal with behavior issues.

Anyway, that is the route I'm taking and I gave that text as a reminder for us all to consider the lengths we need to go to as Christ forgives us.

I'm pretty sure I'm on Sudsy's foe list, so they won't see this. I'm not 100% sure what they are referring to, but it's deeply concerning that my posts would cause someone anxiety. I have intentionally stayed away from making dire predictions about long term side-effects of the vaccine and things like that. While I am personally concerned for people who are vaccinated, I can't change it now.

My primary concern is that people are educated about the risks, and unknowns, and the statistical games being played to protect the mainstream narrative. They can use this information to make an informed decisions about being vaccinated, or getting a 3rd, 4th, 5th shot etc.

Meanwhile. Ken regularly fear-mongers about COVID, today saying Holmes County is full of "misery and death".

[Josh]

Should the government require employers to mandate vaccines for all employees or not?

I seem to recall you supporting such mandates.

No, I do not support mandates for all employees. And I support religious exemptions for mandates, but not for all roles. For instance, in the assisted living facility where my 90 year old grandmother lives, all employees on-site are required to be vaccinated. That means I would also support programs to help people with religious exemptions find other jobs if vaccination is important to the job they are doing.

You also said if you had employees, you would require vaccines.

I believe I said that I would require vaccines if I ran a medical facility. I would probably require testing and masking for people who are not vaccinated in any face-to-face setting.

So, what’s your position? Should people like me be allowed to have a job? Or do you think the government should make my employer fire me and Soloist?

I think that depends on what kind of job you have, in what kind of setting. Keeping vulnerable people safe is important, so is keeping other employees safe. But I don't want to fire people if it is avoidable. Testing and masks will probably be sufficient in most settings. Reassigning to other roles, remote work ... I would try to find something that works.

So, you’d expect us to have a qtip jammed up our nose every day (which could have long term health consequences - nobody knows, there are no long term studies) and wear masks literally the rest of our lives.

Sorry. But I’m not interested in people like you mandating a society wide dress code. I don’t think my face is something to be ashamed of that needs to be covered up the rest of my life.

[nett]

I believe I said that I would require vaccines if I ran a medical facility. I would probably require testing and masking for people who are not vaccinated in any face-to-face setting.

There is a lot of empirical data available on masking and testing, so can you point me something empirical showing that mask mandates or increased testing lead to reduced COVID spread, hospitalizations, or death?

Anything county level or larger would be acceptable.

[Bootstrap]

I believe I said that I would require vaccines if I ran a medical facility. I would probably require testing and masking for people who are not vaccinated in any face-to-face setting.

There is a lot of empirical data available on masking and testing, so can you point me something empirical showing that mask mandates or increased testing lead to reduced COVID spread, hospitalizations, or death?

Anything county level or larger would be acceptable.

Sure.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21261726v1

https://covsim.hosted-wordpress.oit.ncs ... mbined.pdf

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33431650/

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2776536

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

[nett]

I believe I said that I would require vaccines if I ran a medical facility. I would probably require testing and masking for people who are not vaccinated in any face-to-face setting.

There is a lot of empirical data available on masking and testing, so can you point me something empirical showing that mask mandates or increased testing lead to reduced COVID spread, hospitalizations, or death?

Anything county level or larger would be acceptable.

Sure.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cov2.html

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21261726v1

https://covsim.hosted-wordpress.oit.ncs ... mbined.pdf

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33431650/

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/f ... le/2776536

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

Try again please.

[Bootstrap]

Try again please.

I said that if I were a employer, I would probably require testing and masking for people who are not vaccinated in any face-to-face setting. You asked me to provide evidence, this evidence is convincing to me. In general, I really would follow the public heath recommendations during a pandemic. It may not convince you, but it does convince me.

Back to the topic of this thread - I think we are all a bit off because of the pandemic and because so many things are different and not what we want. But I don't think this is a "mark of the beast" thing, neither testing nor face masks nor vaccines seem like a good candidate for that. They don't rhyme with this:

And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads. On its horns were ten crowns, and on its heads were blasphemous names. The beast I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. The dragon gave the beast his power, his throne, and great authority. One of its heads appeared to be fatally wounded, but its fatal wound was healed.

The whole earth was amazed and followed the beast. They worshiped the dragon because he gave authority to the beast. And they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to wage war against it?”

The beast was given a mouth to utter boasts and blasphemies. It was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. It began to speak blasphemies against God: to blaspheme his name and his dwelling—those who dwell in heaven. And it was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them. It was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation. All those who live on the earth will worship it, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

Vaccines don't seem to be the key to the surveillance state, either. The QR codes simply provide a way to look up a website, and the World Wide Web is the key to the surveillance state. You are giving up all kinds of information to the Web every day you use it. The Who is tracking me on my devices thread goes into this. I could keep adding things to that thread for a very long time.