Vaccine Mandates a Slippery Slope towards the Surveillance State and Mark of the Beast

[violet]

Thank you for the response Boostrap and I did not want to appear as though I was ignoring you.

No, he is not a medical professional.

Beyond this, I am not going to go into specifics as this is mostly (in my opinion) a read only board with only a few dipping their toes into the debates that generally rage here on Mennonet.

But, I disagree with the statement that these vaccine mandates are no big deal and that it is not a slippery slope.

and, I think it is easy to play arm chair politics until a family loses a solid income job simply because they view the pandemic differently. Those who are vaccinated obviously view the safety and efficiacy of the vaccine very, very differently than those who are not. And, the conesequences are large.

And good for you for getting your Liberty U vaccines. You do know that you can get exemptions in Virginia, correct? And, if you don't get one, well then you choose to use a different university. You are not cut off from your income or your health insurance or your pension fund.

I won't be playing the debate game with you all..I plan to simply disappear once again into the abyss of those who just read....I already have enough stress in my life currently.

But, yes, to me....this situation feels an awful lot like a slippery slope and there are a lot of people on this slope.

8% of the federal workforce faces termination after the 4th of January. 8%. Thats an awful lot of people...but hey, at least they won't be "fired" before the holidays, right? Decent. Quite decent indeed.

[Bootstrap]

But, I disagree with the statement that these vaccine mandates are no big deal and that it is not a slippery slope.

and, I think it is easy to play arm chair politics until a family loses a solid income job simply because they view the pandemic differently. Those who are vaccinated obviously view the safety and efficiacy of the vaccine very, very differently than those who are not. And, the conesequences are large.

I actually agree that vaccine mandates are a big deal. But I also think losing 800,000 American lives in a pandemic is a big deal.

Any time someone loses a job, the consequences are huge. Any time someone is hospitalized or loses their life, the consequences are huge. That's why people have such strong feelings about this issue. We live in communities, our actions affect other people, the pandemic shakes everything up and makes us renegotiate all kinds of things. It's hard. It's disruptive.

But invoking the Mark of the Beast makes this about something completely different. A vaccine is not renouncing Jesus, it is not a visible mark to proclaim our loyalty to the Beast. It's a vaccine.

And yes, people have very different feelings about the safety and efficacy of this vaccine. What are reliable sources for information about the safety and efficacy of a vaccine? I think that's the other major question. Can we rely on modern medical science to give us accurate information about what we currently know and do not know? Or are is modern medical science just trying to deceive us for nefarious reasons? That's where that particular disagreement lies.

[violet]

Everything IS A BIG deal.

and yes, 800.000 people is huge. These deaths have affected people in very large ways as all death can. There are people who also suffered from vaccine injury (not going to debeate it, you either believe it or you don't...and their world has changed too.)

A family friend just lost his mother to covid. His world is shattered and he is not in a good place.

The world is hurting. People are hurting.

I will focus on him and his hurt.

The vaccine divide is too large to be healed.

In another six months I guess we will see if the "mark" is a theory or a truth. Until then, I guess we just wait.

[Falco Underhill]

Vaccine mandates have already introduced the use of QR codes for business transactions and that use is only likely to continue to grow now regardless of the pandemic. Consider the following points:

* QR codes can be used.for business transactions and to track our offline behavior just like Google tracks our online behavior.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/26/tech ... cking.html

* They can be used to facilitate a worldwide identification system that is being pushed for use by the World Health Organization.

* We have seen in real time how they can serve as a government pass to enter businesses and participate in society.

* In addition there is a real push right now in various countries to start using a Central Bank Digital Currency rather than cash.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cbdctracker/

*`We've seen how China combines QR code technology with other technologies to create a digital social credit system.

" In Sweden the subcutaneous microchip in the hand is a reality right now already making cash obsolete.

Call it whatever you want but there's enough here already to get a lot of people thinking and speculating. That's why I included it as part of the discussion here. I don't think it's unreasonable.

But don't expect me to go back and forth arguing these point for point with anyone here because I haven't got time for that kind of stress in my life either. My only point is that if people are speculating that's because recent developments in technology have made it possible to speculate.

[temporal1]

Falco:
.. My only point is that if people are speculating that's because recent developments in technology have made it possible to speculate.

(i think) recent developments have made it possible for individuals to share+discuss as never before.
(i think) speculation, observation, questioning, et al., always existed! never before with the speed+volume+openness tech provides.

it’s a true mixed bag.

one positive that stuns me to this day was - how in the 1990’s, victims of (Catholic priest) sexual predators were AT LONG LAST acknowledged. others have followed, in secular and religious corners. sin is sin. but, at last, victims found identity (that had been efficiently denied).

the lists of tech pros+cons could go on+on. for me, this was a “revolutionary” point in time.

[Josh]

“That none may by or sell, except those that accept the mark and the number of his name.”

I reject accepting the numbers HEK-293 or PER.C6, but accept that those who do not worship these marks and these numbers may very well find that we cannot buy or sell.

[Josh]

I wonder if the unvaccinated feel the same way?

Perhaps I will ask my husband, a man with a master's degree and published in scientific journals if he feels the same as he was either given the choice to resign or face termination due to "gross negligence."

I mean, clearly a man, such as he must not understand "science."

What strains the credulity is a vaccine mandate being the mark of the beast. An employer asking for a vaccine hardly equates to the mark of the beast. When I went to Liberty U I had to get some vaccines.

I’ve never had a job in Australia, America, Canada, or Israel that required vaccinations to remain employed.

[nett]

I wonder if the unvaccinated feel the same way?

Perhaps I will ask my husband, a man with a master's degree and published in scientific journals if he feels the same as he was either given the choice to resign or face termination due to "gross negligence."

What kind of job did this involve? How did he respond? Did he have convictions against vaccines? If so, what was the basis for his convictions?

If I ran a medical facility, I would want my employees to be vaccinated. We're in a pandemic. I don't want my facility spreading Covid-19.

Are you suggesting that vaccinated people don't contract and spread COVID?

[Falco Underhill]

Addendum: in Sweden not everyone is keen to be chipped and it remains voluntary, but the technology is already there.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/vi ... 1200837625

[joshuabgood]

Everything IS A BIG deal.

and yes, 800.000 people is huge. These deaths have affected people in very large ways as all death can. There are people who also suffered from vaccine injury (not going to debeate it, you either believe it or you don't...and their world has changed too.)

A family friend just lost his mother to covid. His world is shattered and he is not in a good place.

The world is hurting. People are hurting.

I will focus on him and his hurt.

The vaccine divide is too large to be healed.

In another six months I guess we will see if the "mark" is a theory or a truth. Until then, I guess we just wait.

And if in six months, no mark, and no beast, will we then be in agreement with the discernment that this thread strains credulity?

Regarding losing jobs, I have left a job that needed a Master's and a big pension and nice pay for religious reasons. And I do, and did, feel the pain economically speaking. I don't regret it in my case. It wasn't the only way to make a living.

But my point is only, the vaccine mandates are nothing new. I graduated from Liberty over 20 years ago. And I don't go for getting exceptions because the science was clear that the vaccines I needed back then were beneficial. So also is the COVID Vaccine.

All that said I am generally against mandated vaccines if some one were to ask me. I feel mandates only solidify the resistance and in there own way firm up the conspiracy theorists. I would idealize volitional healthcare except in the most extreme cases.

What I think really strains credulity is saying the vaccine will end up the mark of the beast.