Who is tracking me on my devices?

[Szdfan]

It's interesting that when people warn about Covid as an excuse for authoritarianism, they point to other countries' public health measures, which doesn't seem relevant to here.

[Falco Underhill]

Why would you want to stop making vaccines available?

Hi Boot, how ya been? Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

[Falco Underhill]

It's interesting that when people warn about Covid as an excuse for authoritarianism, they point to other countries' public health measures, which doesn't seem relevant to here.

Fine, ignore what's going on in New Zealand, Germany and Austria, Australia, Canada, the European Union, China, etc.

But I'd still at least like an answer to when in history the USA ever shut down the economy or made getting a vaccination a condition of employment for the sake of the chicken pox.

I notice that question keeps getting ignored here

[Ken]

It's interesting that when people warn about Covid as an excuse for authoritarianism, they point to other countries' public health measures, which doesn't seem relevant to here.

Fine, ignore what's going on in New Zealand, Germany and Austria, Australia, Canada, the European Union, China, etc.

But I'd still at least like an answer to when in history the USA ever shut down the economy or made getting a vaccination a condition of employment for the sake of the chicken pox.

I notice that question keeps getting ignored here

What is your obsession with Chicken Pox? Since when has Chicken Pox killed 780,000 Americans in less than 2 years like Covid has? We have provided you with plenty of other examples of historical vaccine mandates and historical shut downs and quarantines for other diseases.

[Bootstrap]

That's hardly more reassuring than the argument that "the system has already mostly been in place for years so why are you yapping about it now" argument.

Another way to put that argument: Vaccine mandates have never been the thing that overturns democracy, but they sure have helped bring dangerous diseases under control.

The kinds of personal data collection and data privacy you mention are real concerns, but the issues involving vaccines are a drop in the bucket compared to all the ways people are tracking you - ways that most people here don't seem to care about enough to discuss much. Which is the point of the thread. If that's your real concern, then there are much higher priorities for your attention.

[Ken]

There are, indeed, problematic proposals to track Americans that have nothing to do with Covid. And I am actually concerned about some of them.

The biggest problematic proposal in my mind? Various states are looking into vehicle mileage taxes as an alternative to gas taxes for paying for highways. They are testing the idea in Oregon now and a variety of other states. It is an absolutely ridiculous and horribly wasteful idea that has no business ever seeing the light of day. Apparently it is too politically difficult to raise gas taxes in this day and age and they don't tax electric cars. So they have come up with this alternative rather than just adjusting the gas tax and coming up with a comparable electric vehicle tax or electricity tax.

The gist is that all cars would have GPS monitoring devices installed which would track every mile you drive on every road and at every hour so they can come up with complicated fee schedules based on miles driven, highways/bridges used, and time of day. You would then get billed for your highway use accordingly. And people think that is a better idea? Who is going to be responsible for paying for, installing, and maintaining those millions of tracking devices? What happens if yours breaks? How long will it take until YouTube videos are posted up describing how to disable such devices so you can go driving around without the government knowing? How soon until law enforcement gets ahold of the data to know exactly where you were at 9 pm last Thursday? Or conversely, who all was at X location at that time?

I am much more concerned about that sort of trillion dollar boondoggle than Covid tracking.

[Falco Underhill]

It's interesting that when people warn about Covid as an excuse for authoritarianism, they point to other countries' public health measures, which doesn't seem relevant to here.

Fine, ignore what's going on in New Zealand, Germany and Austria, Australia, Canada, the European Union, China, etc.

But I'd still at least like an answer to when in history the USA ever shut down the economy or made getting a vaccination a condition of employment for the sake of the chicken pox.

I notice that question keeps getting ignored here

We have provided you with plenty of other examples of historical vaccine mandates and historical shut downs and quarantines for other diseases.

Mumps, measles, polio, whatever.

MADE VACCINATION A CONDITION. OF EMPLOYMENT? ( I put that in capitals because you continue to ignore it) That hasn't happened so far as I know.

You did not show where that's ever happened before.

.Here's an ABC news headline

New York City Announces First-In-The-Nation Vaccine Mandate For Private Companies

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... N38tJpYXgd

Exactly what history book are you reading that tells you this has happened before?

[Ken]

Fine, ignore what's going on in New Zealand, Germany and Austria, Australia, Canada, the European Union, China, etc.

But I'd still at least like an answer to when in history the USA ever shut down the economy or made getting a vaccination a condition of employment for the sake of the chicken pox.

I notice that question keeps getting ignored here

We have provided you with plenty of other examples of historical vaccine mandates and historical shut downs and quarantines for other diseases.

Mumps, measles, polio, whatever.

MADE VACCINATION A CONDITION. OF EMPLOYMENT? ( I put that in capitals because you continue to ignore it) That hasn't happened so far as I know.

You did not show where that's ever happened before.

Here is an example from the pre-Covid area in the place where I teach. It doesn't actually mention it in the article but school staff were also required to be vaccinated with MMR as a condition of employment with the same exact exemption process as exists today. I had to find a copy of my shot record and upload it to the District HR web site in order to keep working. Or else go get the shot. I guess that part of it was so uncontroversial that it didn't even make the news at the time. https://www.columbian.com/news/2019/feb ... ed-school/

Some states have required flu shots of hospital employees for years, long before Covid. Here is a list. Here in WA the state doesn't require it but my wife's employer does anyway so she's had to get her flu shot every year as a condition of employment: https://www2a.cdc.gov/vaccines/statevac ... =Influenza

This, for example, is the Colorado law as referenced on the CDC site above:

For Colorado requirements, see 6 CCR 1011-1, Chapter 2, Part 10, pertaining to influenza immunization of healthcare workers. 6 CCR 1011-1 Chapter 2, §10.8 provides that each licensed hospital, hospital unit, ambulatory surgical center and long-term care facility shall have a written policy regarding the annual influenza immunization of its healthcare workers that, at a minimum, ensures that each of its healthcare workers has either proof of immunization or a medical exemption signed by a physician, physician’s assistant, advanced practice nurse or nurse midwife licensed in the State of Colorado stating that influenza vaccination for that individual is medically contraindicated as described in the product labeling approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration.

Those are two pre-Covid examples for you right there.

[Falco Underhill]

We have provided you with plenty of other examples of historical vaccine mandates and historical shut downs and quarantines for other diseases.

Mumps, measles, polio, whatever.

MADE VACCINATION A CONDITION. OF EMPLOYMENT? ( I put that in capitals because you continue to ignore it) That hasn't happened so far as I know.

You did not show where that's ever happened before.

Here is an example from the pre-Covid area in the place where I teach. It doesn't actually mention it in the article but school staff were also required to be vaccinated with MMR as a condition of employment with the same exact exemption process as exists today. I had to find a copy of my shot record and upload it to the District HR web site in order to keep working. Or else go get the shot. I guess that part of it was so uncontroversial that it didn't even make the news at the time. https://www.columbian.com/news/2019/feb ... ed-school/

Some states have required flu shots of hospital employees for years, long before Covid. Here is a list. Here in WA the state doesn't require it but my wife's employer does anyway so she's had to get her flu shot every year as a condition of employment: https://www2a.cdc.gov/vaccines/statevac ... =Influenza

This, for example, is the Colorado law as referenced on the CDC site above:

For Colorado requirements, see 6 CCR 1011-1, Chapter 2, Part 10, pertaining to influenza immunization of healthcare workers. 6 CCR 1011-1 Chapter 2, §10.8 provides that each licensed hospital, hospital unit, ambulatory surgical center and long-term care facility shall have a written policy regarding the annual influenza immunization of its healthcare workers that, at a minimum, ensures that each of its healthcare workers has either proof of immunization or a medical exemption signed by a physician, physician’s assistant, advanced practice nurse or nurse midwife licensed in the State of Colorado stating that influenza vaccination for that individual is medically contraindicated as described in the product labeling approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration.

Those are two pre-Covid examples for you right there.

Okay, schools and hospitals were probably considered part of the public sector. What's new is the government is making mandates with respect to private businesses. I do not regard that as a negligible difference.

In terms of government reach that's massive.

I haven't the time to check into it more at the moment but thanks, that's a significant difference.

[Ken]

Mumps, measles, polio, whatever.

MADE VACCINATION A CONDITION. OF EMPLOYMENT? ( I put that in capitals because you continue to ignore it) That hasn't happened so far as I know.

You did not show where that's ever happened before.

Here is an example from the pre-Covid area in the place where I teach. It doesn't actually mention it in the article but school staff were also required to be vaccinated with MMR as a condition of employment with the same exact exemption process as exists today. I had to find a copy of my shot record and upload it to the District HR web site in order to keep working. Or else go get the shot. I guess that part of it was so uncontroversial that it didn't even make the news at the time. https://www.columbian.com/news/2019/feb ... ed-school/

Some states have required flu shots of hospital employees for years, long before Covid. Here is a list. Here in WA the state doesn't require it but my wife's employer does anyway so she's had to get her flu shot every year as a condition of employment: https://www2a.cdc.gov/vaccines/statevac ... =Influenza

This, for example, is the Colorado law as referenced on the CDC site above:

For Colorado requirements, see 6 CCR 1011-1, Chapter 2, Part 10, pertaining to influenza immunization of healthcare workers. 6 CCR 1011-1 Chapter 2, §10.8 provides that each licensed hospital, hospital unit, ambulatory surgical center and long-term care facility shall have a written policy regarding the annual influenza immunization of its healthcare workers that, at a minimum, ensures that each of its healthcare workers has either proof of immunization or a medical exemption signed by a physician, physician’s assistant, advanced practice nurse or nurse midwife licensed in the State of Colorado stating that influenza vaccination for that individual is medically contraindicated as described in the product labeling approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration.

Those are two pre-Covid examples for you right there.

Okay, schools and hospitals were probably considered part of the public sector. What's new is the government is making mandates with respect to private businesses. I do not regard that as a negligible difference.

In terms of government reach that's massive.

I haven't the time to check into it more at the moment but thanks, that's a significant difference.

Most hospitals are private sector. Very few are actually government run outside of the military and VA systems.