Who is tracking me on my devices?

[ken_sylvania]

It seems reasonable to me that any national law enforcement agency should be directly under the control of the one person who is ultimately responsible to execute and enforce the nations laws.

I think that violates the principle that "no man is above the law". And it could well lead to a police state. I think we see that in other countries where this is the case.

Where does the Attorney General get his authority to enforce the nation's laws?

The word "directly" is pretty important here. There are buffers to prevent the President from directly controlling the FBI, using it to harass his political enemies and protect his political friends, preventing it from investigating any wrongdoing he does himself. The Constitution does not give him that power. For good reason.

If you don't want a police state, you don't want to mess with that.

Where does the Attorney General get his authority to enforce the nation's laws?

[Josh]

If you make the FBI independent, how would you ensure that the leader of the FBI is more worthy to lead the FBI that the president is? The folks who wrote the Constitution believed that the ultimate authority to execute the laws of the USA should rest on the shoulders of a man elected by the electoral college.

It seems reasonable to me that any national law enforcement agency should be directly under the control of the one person who is ultimately responsible to execute and enforce the nations laws.

I'm not exactly sure what you intended to accomplish with that snide remark about Republicans, but I guess you know.

When the president is the one committing crimes, who can investigate?

Many think Nixon and Trump have been the most lawless presidents in recent history, so that's my understanding of the bit on Republican presidents.

The voters can elect a different President. In the case of a very lawless President, the Congress should investigate, impeach, and convict.

It is a matter of opinion who the most "lawless" President in recent history is; Democrats tend to not like Republican Presidents. Republicans tend to think Democratic Presidents were lawless.

For example, Obama used the IRS to harass conservative-leaning organisations. That's exactly the kind of "police state" activity America is descending more and more into.

[Bootstrap]

When the president is the one committing crimes, who can investigate?

The voters can elect a different President. In the case of a very lawless President, the Congress should investigate, impeach, and convict.

Voters can't investigate. Congress is generally too political to investigate political crimes. The role of law enforcement is extremely important here if we believe "no man is above the law."

And electing a different president may not work if the president refuses to accept election results and has an iron hand on both law enforcement and the military. That's how police states happen. We need every degree of protection we have against that. It's called the rule of law. I mean, isn't a police state all about an authoritarian leader who has an iron hand on the police and the military and can order them to do whatever he wants? Isn't that almost a textbook definition?

It does not lead to liberty.

[Falco Underhill]

There is no doubt in my mind that China is a police state. But a QR code is basically just encrypted data, it doesn't track you.

The data collected can be used for covid tracking purposes. That's exactly what QR codes are being used for in Australia and other countries at the moment and that's why I thought it was relevant.

[Bootstrap]

For example, Obama used the IRS to harass conservative-leaning organisations. That's exactly the kind of "police state" activity America is descending more and more into.

This was investigated by the FBI. Can we agree that Obama should not have power to stop that investigation? The FBI did not find this claim to be true, but it's important that they had a free hand to investigate.

[Falco Underhill]

There is no doubt in my mind that China is a police state. But a QR code is basically just encrypted data, it doesn't track you.

You claimed you didn't know how QR codes were being used for Covid Tracking purposes. The data collected can be sent to a central database. If you were at McDonald's for lunch at the same time as someone who had the covid virus the government would be able to determine that and get in touch with you as result. You could also be sent to a quarantine facility in some countries.

[Szdfan]

Where does the Attorney General get his authority to enforce the nation's laws?

The word "directly" is pretty important here. There are buffers to prevent the President from directly controlling the FBI, using it to harass his political enemies and protect his political friends, preventing it from investigating any wrongdoing he does himself. The Constitution does not give him that power. For good reason.

If you don't want a police state, you don't want to mess with that.

Where does the Attorney General get his authority to enforce the nation's laws?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... prov=sfti1

Under the Appointments Clause of the United States Constitution, the officeholder is nominated by the president of the United States, then appointed with the advice and consent of the United States Senate. The attorney general is supported by the Office of the Attorney General, which includes executive staff and several deputies.

Congress passed the Judiciary Act of 1789 which, among other things, established the Office of the Attorney General. The original duties of this officer were "to prosecute and conduct all suits in the Supreme Court in which the United States shall be concerned, and to give his advice and opinion upon questions of law when required by the president of the United States, or when requested by the heads of any of the departments".

[Falco Underhill]

I agree - we need clear privacy rules on these things. If this is used only for contact tracing, which is the reason given, then this data can be anonymized.

The whole point of contact tracing is to identify persons who've been in close contact with infected persons. The anonymity is the problem.

Here's an excellent link regarding how QR_codes are used for contact tracing —

How to use QR codes for contact tracing

https://orcascan.com/guides/how-to-use- ... g-220f3691

[Bootstrap]

I agree - we need clear privacy rules on these things. If this is used only for contact tracing, which is the reason given, then this data can be anonymized.

The purpose of contact tracing is to "un-anonymize" any persons who come into contact with a covid-infected person. The whole point is to identify them.

Contact tracing can be done in many ways, including ways that use QR codes. Some raise privacy concerns, others do not.

An analogy: You have to show ID to pay with a credit card. If the cashier simply verifies that it is you, then runs the credit card, that's not a problem. If the cashier photographs that ID and uses information from it to steal your identity, that's a problem.

Here's an excellent link regarding how QR_codes are used for contact tracing —

How to use QR codes for contact tracing

https://orcascan.com/guides/how-to-use- ... g-220f3691

Well, that's one way QR codes can be used for contact tracing. There are many others.

For instance, there are anonymous contact tracing systems that also use QR codes. Google it:

anonymous contact tracing qr codes

I haven't spent any time on what Australia is doing, you seem to be pointing to what China is doing and saying that Australia is doing the same thing because they both use QR codes. I don't know if that's true or not, I generally don't think Australia is like China. I do know how QR codes work and various ways they might be used. Some of these would concern me, others would not.

[Falco Underhill]

Well, that's one way QR codes can be used for contact tracing. There are many others.

For instance, there are anonymous contact tracing systems that also use QR codes. Google it:

anonymous contact tracing qr codes

So, if I'm understanding this, it seems to me all the difference between whether a method of contact tracing is considered "anonymous" or not depends on whether or not the data collected is sent to a central database where it can be used by third parties. In that case it would be centralized contact tracing. The other method of contact tracing (what you're referring to as "anonymized") would be referred to as decentralized contact tracing. An example would be data could be kept on a phone for so many days or weeks then rolled off, but not sent to any centralized data base.

Yes, there are those different methods.

I haven't spent any time on what Australia is doing, you seem to be pointing to what China is doing and saying that Australia is doing the same thing because they both use QR codes. I don't know if that's true or not, I generally don't think Australia is like China. I do know how QR codes work and various ways they might be used. Some of these would concern me, others would not.

My understanding is China and Australia are both using centralized contact tracing methods. These aren't necessarily tyrannical, it depends on how they're being used.