Three types of Anabaptists - which one are you? [POLL]

[mennonitemom1]

# 2.

You could have added vaccine positions to the options

1) Anti-Covid Vaccine - bc Covid is like the flu and the vaccines are built on the backs of aborted babies and government generally isn't trustworthy and the Dr's like Fauci are irresponsible and "out to get theirliberties" through government over-reach/control
2) Embrace the vaccine and believe it is scientifically valid and that Dr.s like Fauci generally have the best public interest in mind, though they also believe health care is ultimately a personal choice and should not coerced
3) The govt should mandate vaccines for all.

This would be a good poll and which one would Jesus be?? I’m certain Jesus was anti vax and antigovernment…. He was what they would call today a “conspiracy theorist” I love Jesus, he’s awesome.

[Neto]

Women are pretty much universally less conservative than men across every ethnic and religious group. Whether you are talking about Catholics, evangelicals, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, or whatever.

I don't have an opinion about this in respect to modern societies, but in the tribal societies to which I have been exposed, the women are by far the more traditional force in the culture and society. Part of this may be because in isolated societies such as the Banawa (where we lived), the women have very little contact with the outside culture. For instance, before we moved in and my wife began selling fabric, the MEN always picked it out for them. For the first time, the women could choose their own fabric designs and colors. The women are the carriers of the traditional medicine practices. It is largely the women who insist that traditional ceremonies are carried out in the proper way. (At the same time, there were one or two of the women who tended to be willing to break the cultural mores, such as that some would come talk to me, especially when I was there alone for a few days. But don't take this wrong - there was no perception of any immoral intent involved - they talked to me because they needed medicines or some other assistance. But the point is that the culture would have directed them to pass the message or request on through their husband, a brother, or another close male relative.)

[Bootstrap]

2) "Third-Way" Anabaptist – Biblicist who prioritize radical obedience to Christ & His apostles - including non-resistance, non-accumulation, sexual & marital purity, exceptional love and forgiveness, servanthood, and empathy for the poor, marginalized, & displaced; Worldview framed by “two-kingdom theology” - working toward both the present and future reign of Christ; Aloof from politics & voting, and deliberately independent from progressive and conservative ideologies, seeing them ultimately in conflict with Christ’s Kingdom; Rejecting both secular globalism and nationalism; Valuing the sanctity of all life - against all forms killing including war, euthanasia, abortion, & capital punishment.

Here's something I notice.

When I get busy and drop off of MN, I pay a lot less attention to politics and the news. The daily political outrage doesn't penetrate my church or social circles.

I suspect most people here say we want to be #2. But does MN work for or against that?

[Bootstrap]

This would be a good poll and which one would Jesus be?? I’m certain Jesus was anti vax and antigovernment…. He was what they would call today a “conspiracy theorist” I love Jesus, he’s awesome.

Jesus was anti-vax and anti-government? Jesus was a conspiracy theorist? Can you quote some verses, in context, to explain where you see that?

To me, the problem is precisely that we need to look and act more like Jesus. We should be attracting the kind of people Jesus attracted, offending the kind of people Jesus offended, standing up for the people Jesus stood up for, embracing the concerns that Jesus cared about.

It's so easy to invoke the name of Jesus while promoting completely different things.

[ohio jones]

I’m certain Jesus was anti vax and antigovernment….

Being able to heal without the use of vaccines might arguably qualify as anti-vax. But you can't exactly be anti-government and have a never-ending one on your shoulders (Isaiah 9).

[Szdfan]

I see the same thing in MCUSA churches that I'm familiar with that would be labeled very liberal here in terms of theology. But actually have attendees who's politics range from very conservative to very liberal. I have family who fit that description. They are perfectly comfortable with the theological tilt of the church, women in leadership, engagement on peace issues, acceptance of LGBT rights, and so forth. But they are arch conservatives when it comes to politics, although probably more along libertarian lines than evangelical culture war lines.

This was my experience as a pastor of an MCUSA church, though LGBTQ rights was very controversial for these politcally conservative folks.

[Szdfan]

3) Progressive-minded Anabaptist - Nuanced in approach to Scripture; Strong faith-driven motivation toward peace and social justice, emphasizing Christ's heart for the marginalized; Egalitarian-minded in family and church leadership roles; Prioritizes "love over law" in relation to sexuality, divorce, and other human complexities; Against state-sponsored killing including warfare and capital punishment; Want abortions reduced, but not necessarily by outlawing choice; Supportive of gun control; Would like less military spending replaced by more programs to help those less advantaged; Sympathetic to civil rights initiatives in the face of systemic racism and inequities; Believes in living simply and that climate change is a global threat.

So I feel called out.

[mennonitemom1]

I’m certain Jesus was anti vax and antigovernment….

Being able to heal without the use of vaccines might arguably qualify as anti-vax. But you can't exactly be anti-government and have a never-ending one on your shoulders (Isaiah 9).

Jesus said it’s nearly impossible to get a rich man into heaven….(our government is now controlled by the richest men, (luciferians also) and we know he said the ruler of this world is coming and I should just find the scriptures…. (I think you’re misunderstanding the prophecy about government on shoulders to mean something else…

John 14:30
I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me.

John 12:31-33
Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.' This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

John 8:44-47
You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."

John 16:11
of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Ephesians 2:1-3
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Ephesians 6:12-13
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

1 Peter 5:8-10
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

Matthew 4:8-9
Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."

Luke 4:5-6
Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said to Him, "All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.

Hebrews 2:14
Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

James 4:4
Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

James 4:7
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.

1 John 2:17
And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

1 John 5:18-19
We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

[mennonitemom1]

3) Progressive-minded Anabaptist - Nuanced in approach to Scripture; Strong faith-driven motivation toward peace and social justice, emphasizing Christ's heart for the marginalized; Egalitarian-minded in family and church leadership roles; Prioritizes "love over law" in relation to sexuality, divorce, and other human complexities; Against state-sponsored killing including warfare and capital punishment; Want abortions reduced, but not necessarily by outlawing choice; Supportive of gun control; Would like less military spending replaced by more programs to help those less advantaged; Sympathetic to civil rights initiatives in the face of systemic racism and inequities; Believes in living simply and that climate change is a global threat.

So I feel called out.
[/quote
]

Ouch…. My feeble mind considers those qualities to belong to the lukewarm…..

[Ken]

Women are pretty much universally less conservative than men across every ethnic and religious group. Whether you are talking about Catholics, evangelicals, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, or whatever.

I don't have an opinion about this in respect to modern societies, but in the tribal societies to which I have been exposed, the women are by far the more traditional force in the culture and society. Part of this may be because in isolated societies such as the Banawa (where we lived), the women have very little contact with the outside culture. For instance, before we moved in and my wife began selling fabric, the MEN always picked it out for them. For the first time, the women could choose their own fabric designs and colors. The women are the carriers of the traditional medicine practices. It is largely the women who insist that traditional ceremonies are carried out in the proper way. (At the same time, there were one or two of the women who tended to be willing to break the cultural mores, such as that some would come talk to me, especially when I was there alone for a few days. But don't take this wrong - there was no perception of any immoral intent involved - they talked to me because they needed medicines or some other assistance. But the point is that the culture would have directed them to pass the message or request on through their husband, a brother, or another close male relative.)

Sure, but what are the equivalent issues translated to the modern world?

Is a modern woman concerned primarily about home and family going to be more interested in say: healthcare, education, family leave, etc. which are traditionally liberal issues? Or is she going to be more concerned about gun rights, immigration, government regulation, etc. which are traditionally more conservative issues?