Three types of Anabaptists - which one are you? [POLL]

[mercysfree]

I marked "third way Anabaptist," with the caveat that although war and capital punishment may sometimes be conducted wrongly, they fall in with the authority of "the sword" that God has given to civil authorities. I recognize that authority at the same time as I stand apart from it as a Kingdom Christian.

[mercysfree]

And I am strongly in favor of simplicity in personal lifestyle choices. Funny how that is progressive.

[Ernie]

Are you trying to just characterize Anabaptists here on Mennonet? Or in the wider world?

Because, for example, the few Amish I happen to know (that I am actually related to) would most definitely be considered Conservative. But they don’t to my eye engage in much if any thought or energy on any outside political issues whether they be 2nd Amendment rights, government regulation, abortion law, or anything else. Those are all “worldly affairs” which they don’t concern themselves with. But they are also environmental-minded, concerned about protecting God’s creation, and concerned about human-caused climate change.

Here on Mennonet it seems that both religious and political beliefs align on the same liberal to conservative spectrums. But I’m not sure that is necessarily always the case in the real world.

I think I was thinking mostly of those on MN.

But I do suspect, if pressed, many Amish do have opinions on a lot of these issues that would ferret out a guiding worldview that one way or another (BTW - I wouldn't expect an Amish or Hutterite person to last long in the Amish community with a progressive-type mindset.)

There are thousands of Amish (maybe tens of thousands) who have strong, conservative political views.

[Dan Z]

I marked "third way Anabaptist," with the caveat that although war and capital punishment may sometimes be conducted wrongly, they fall in with the authority of "the sword" that God has given to civil authorities. I recognize that authority at the same time as I stand apart from it as a Kingdom Christian.

This makes sense mercysfree - Perhaps being "against" is too strong a word (although not by much for me). Maybe we could say, like the early Anabaptists, that we object to violence of all kinds, but we recognize that, in a fallen and violent world, the sword is sometimes ordained of God "outside the perfection of Christ."

Personally, I would not be comfortable supporting, much less being for war or capital punishment, or anything else that is contrary to the way of Christ - but I can acknowledge, with sadness, that there is a Scriptural allowance (Rom 13) for its necessary existence within society outside of the Kingdom of God.

[Soloist]

# 2.

You could have added vaccine positions to the options

1) Anti-Covid Vaccine - bc Covid is like the flu and the vaccines are built on the backs of aborted babies and government generally isn't trustworthy and the Dr's like Fauci are irresponsible and "out to get theirliberties" through government over-reach/control
2) Embrace the vaccine and believe it is scientifically valid and that Dr.s like Fauci generally have the best public interest in mind, though they also believe health care is ultimately a personal choice and should not coerced
3) The govt should mandate vaccines for all.

The primary problem with lists is that generally we might hold to the majority of a statement but not all of it, and we might hold to some of another position but less of it. I would never say number 1 on this list, but I would never claim the other two either. Is it possible to both believe in the scientific process and believe that the tech is built on abortion? I think its a little harsh how you are coming across with this.
The bias is in the first listing, but its much more subtle and I would think Dan spent a fair bit of time trying to minimize the negative connotations of the opinions he disagreed with. I would challenge you to consider trying the same thing.

[Ken]

There are thousands of Amish (maybe tens of thousands) who have strong, conservative political views.

Yes, and I'm sure there are many who don't have strong conservative political views, at least on hot button conservative issues like gun control and immigration. And many more who aren't particularly engaged in politics.

The larger point I would make is that for every ethnic Christian group like the Amish or various flavors of Mennonites in which membership is largely inherited, you no doubt have a wide range of political views. There is likely to be fairly uniform views on religion, at least with respect to the very obvious and visible issues. But not necessarily politics. You are likely to get a range.

I see the same thing in MCUSA churches that I'm familiar with that would be labeled very liberal here in terms of theology. But actually have attendees who's politics range from very conservative to very liberal. I have family who fit that description. They are perfectly comfortable with the theological tilt of the church, women in leadership, engagement on peace issues, acceptance of LGBT rights, and so forth. But they are arch conservatives when it comes to politics, although probably more along libertarian lines than evangelical culture war lines.

I think our society is growing more polarized along both religious and political lines, and the two are merging to some extent as specific churches and denominations come down on one side or the other of the political divide. I think that probably leaves a lot of people behind who might be comfortable with a particular religious group theologically, but not so much with the dominant strain of that group politically. A lot of them probably just stay quiet. Probably a LOT of them are women.

So even though it might be accurate to stereotype people's political views based on their religious denomination. I don't think it is always accurate, or even a good thing to do so.

[ohio jones]

I think that probably leaves a lot of people behind who might be comfortable with a particular religious group theologically, but not so much with the dominant strain of that group politically. A lot of them probably just stay quiet. Probably a LOT of them are women.

So even though it might be accurate to stereotype people's political views based on their religious denomination. I don't think it is always accurate, or even a good thing to do so.

But apparently it's ok to stereotype people's political views based on their gender?

[Ken]

I think that probably leaves a lot of people behind who might be comfortable with a particular religious group theologically, but not so much with the dominant strain of that group politically. A lot of them probably just stay quiet. Probably a LOT of them are women.

So even though it might be accurate to stereotype people's political views based on their religious denomination. I don't think it is always accurate, or even a good thing to do so.

But apparently it's ok to stereotype people's political views based on their gender?

It's not stereotyping. It's true. Women are pretty much universally less conservative than men across every ethnic and religious group. Whether you are talking about Catholics, evangelicals, Blacks, Whites, Hispanics, or whatever. No one exit polls the Amish or other Menno groups but I expect they are likely to follow the same pattern as well.

But the larger point is that even within religious groups that are predominantly and stereotypically leaning towards one political party. Like, for example, Southern Baptists. You still have millions who do not share those political inclinations. And based on polling, more of them will be women then men. So I think such groups tighten the bonds between religion and politics at their peril.

[Josh]

In my own circles, I hear women have as much to say as men politically. And generally speaking, more women decide to stay in our circles and continue a conservative/traditional lifestyle than men. For whatever reasons, more men leave a conservative/traditionalist Anabaptist culture than women do. There are also slightly more young men who die in accidents than women, so long-term, there tend to be a bit more single women than single men (and more widows than widowers, too). It's more common to encounter a couple where the husband has left the church vs. the wife.

[JimFoxvog]

I'd be a mixture of #2 and #3. Italicizing what I agree with and cross out font for what doesn't describe my view. Normal font for unclear or nuanced.

2) "Third-Way" Anabaptist – Biblicist who prioritize radical obedience to Christ & His apostles - including non-resistance, non-accumulation, sexual & marital purity, exceptional love and forgiveness, servanthood, and empathy for the poor, marginalized, & displaced; Worldview framed by “two-kingdom theology” - working toward both the present and future reign of Christ; Aloof from politics & voting, and deliberately independent from progressive and conservative ideologies, seeing them ultimately in conflict with Christ’s Kingdom; Rejecting both secular globalism and nationalism; Valuing the sanctity of all life - against all forms killing including war, euthanasia, abortion, & capital punishment.

3) Progressive-minded Anabaptist - Nuanced in approach to Scripture; Strong faith-driven motivation toward peace and social justice, emphasizing Christ's heart for the marginalized; Egalitarian-minded in family and church leadership roles; Prioritizes "love over law" in relation to sexuality, divorce, and other human complexities; Against state-sponsored killing including warfare and capital punishment; Want abortions reduced, but not necessarily by outlawing choice; Supportive of gun control; Would like less military spending replaced by more programs to help those less advantaged; Sympathetic to civil rights initiatives in the face of systemic racism and inequities; Believes in living simply and that climate change is a global threat.

(I voted #3 as that didn't have any votes yet.)