MaxPC wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:39 am
I agree. It certainly would make the data less attractive for a breach by not keeping a "mother-lode" of information in one location.
I have to wonder if such mandate is in line with the HIPAA Act. I daresay they would simply get rid of said act or go round it yet I do feel privacy is being breached in a '1984 Orwellian' manner.
HIPPA already doesn't apply to sharing of information for public health reasons, in public health emergencies, or what the government determines are "essential government functions" such as, for example, determining whether someone is eligible for a government benefit or service like SSI. https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/hipaa.html
Is this a good thing?
Is health privacy a good thing, or should the government just run roughshod over the privacy of the people?
I’m not judging whether it is good or bad. Just pointing out that HIPPA doesn’t apply in this situation.
But yes, I think it is good and appropriate that public health officials have access to vaccine data so they can best target and direct their efforts.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:37 am
Yes, given human behavior they are probably the best way. Not the only way. We could completely end the pandemic in 2 weeks if everyone just acted responsibly, isolated and didn’t spread the disease to anyone else. It would completely die out that fast. But since that isn’t happening vaccines are the next best solution.
I never thought they were 100% effective and neither did anyone else. Back in 2020 when they were still under development scientists were hoping or 60-70% effectiveness. Most of the vaccines have exceeded original expectations.
My whole family is vaccinated and we are all out working in jobs with lots of contact with the public. None of us have caught Covid. So it seems to be working for us. If they end up needing to make a new booster for omicron variant or any additional variants I’ll happily take that too. It is a trivial hassle. I’ve taken dozens of different vaccines since I was an infant in the 1960s. That is just a part of life in the modern world. There are probably a thousand different things in my life that are a bigger hassle than the possibility of having to get an occasional vaccine or booster.
Ok, so I think you mentioned 80% as a target at which vaccination really makes a difference.
What do you think countries like Denmark are doing wrong? They are highly vaccinated but are yet again dealing with COVID in a serious way, with cases at an all time high, and deaths and hospitalization on the rise. And we have no idea what omicron will look like there.
Knowing that it is not logistically possible to get to 100% vaccination, Why are we still seeing these outbreaks?
Honestly, when I’m not on here I don’t really follow this stuff at all. So I have no idea what is happening at any moment in any random country like Denmark. I sometimes keep an eye on Covid stats for the county in which we live, and for the counties where I have lots of family. But that is about it.
One point I would make is that vaccinations are not uniform anywhere. Not in Denmark or anywhere else. They are very patchy. So they might be 90% in one sub population and 25% in another sub population. So even in highly vaccinated locations there are probably still plenty of subgroups and sub populations with low vaccination rates who are vulnerable and where outbreaks can take hold. So without doing a deep dive on Denmark, which I’m not going to bother to do, I would suspect that is the likely phenomenon you are seeing.
For example, here in Clark County WA we had several measles outbreaks a few years ago even though the measles vaccination rate was very high. That was because we had sub populations of Russian and Ukrainian immigrants who had very low vaccination rates and since they were tight knit communities attending the same schools, churches, and frequenting the same shops and restaurants the outbreak spread even though the general population was highly vaccinated. The same thing happened a couple years ago in tightly knit Hasidic Jewish communities with low vaccination rates.
I expect the same thing is happening to some extent in countries like Israel that have relatively high vaccination rates but still get outbreaks. Israel has a very patchy population that is not at all uniform. It is actually many many sub populations that live their lives more or less in separate bubbles.
ok...so what is the vaccine rate needed then? It was 70%, then 80%, but if you're saying "patchy" vaccination will still lead to outbreaks, then what are we really hoping for?
Denmark is an extremely compliant country, It's a safe bet to assume that 95%+ of people who CAN be vaccinated ARE vaccinated.
Ok, so I think you mentioned 80% as a target at which vaccination really makes a difference.
What do you think countries like Denmark are doing wrong? They are highly vaccinated but are yet again dealing with COVID in a serious way, with cases at an all time high, and deaths and hospitalization on the rise. And we have no idea what omicron will look like there.
Knowing that it is not logistically possible to get to 100% vaccination, Why are we still seeing these outbreaks?
Honestly, when I’m not on here I don’t really follow this stuff at all. So I have no idea what is happening at any moment in any random country like Denmark. I sometimes keep an eye on Covid stats for the county in which we live, and for the counties where I have lots of family. But that is about it.
One point I would make is that vaccinations are not uniform anywhere. Not in Denmark or anywhere else. They are very patchy. So they might be 90% in one sub population and 25% in another sub population. So even in highly vaccinated locations there are probably still plenty of subgroups and sub populations with low vaccination rates who are vulnerable and where outbreaks can take hold. So without doing a deep dive on Denmark, which I’m not going to bother to do, I would suspect that is the likely phenomenon you are seeing.
For example, here in Clark County WA we had several measles outbreaks a few years ago even though the measles vaccination rate was very high. That was because we had sub populations of Russian and Ukrainian immigrants who had very low vaccination rates and since they were tight knit communities attending the same schools, churches, and frequenting the same shops and restaurants the outbreak spread even though the general population was highly vaccinated. The same thing happened a couple years ago in tightly knit Hasidic Jewish communities with low vaccination rates.
I expect the same thing is happening to some extent in countries like Israel that have relatively high vaccination rates but still get outbreaks. Israel has a very patchy population that is not at all uniform. It is actually many many sub populations that live their lives more or less in separate bubbles.
ok...so what is the vaccine rate needed then? It was 70%, then 80%, but if you're saying "patchy" vaccination will still lead to outbreaks, then what are we really hoping for?
Denmark is an extremely compliant country, It's a safe bet to assume that 95%+ of people who CAN be vaccinated ARE vaccinated.
According to “our world in data” they are at about 75% fully vaccinated.
The point is that if vaccination rates were uniform across a population then you could look at the reproductive rate of the virus and come up with estimates of what sort of vaccination rate will be necessary to bring transmission to an end. However if they are patchy in that some regions or sub populations have much lower vaccination rates than the average you can still have outbreaks even with a high overall vaccination rate. This is true for any disease not just Covid. You could have a 99% vaccination rate, but if the 1% of unvaccinated are concentrated within certain neighborhoods or populations rather than spread out evenly you can still get bad outbreaks. Even if you have a 100% effective vaccine. Which we do not.
I really don’t know what is going on in Denmark. But I suspect they are like most other places in that their vaccination rate is not uniform, but that certain subpopulations or regions have higher and lower vaccination rates than the national average. Which means you still have regions or subpopulations that are vulnerable to outbreaks even with a high overall vaccination rate.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Honestly, when I’m not on here I don’t really follow this stuff at all. So I have no idea what is happening at any moment in any random country like Denmark. I sometimes keep an eye on Covid stats for the county in which we live, and for the counties where I have lots of family. But that is about it.
One point I would make is that vaccinations are not uniform anywhere. Not in Denmark or anywhere else. They are very patchy. So they might be 90% in one sub population and 25% in another sub population. So even in highly vaccinated locations there are probably still plenty of subgroups and sub populations with low vaccination rates who are vulnerable and where outbreaks can take hold. So without doing a deep dive on Denmark, which I’m not going to bother to do, I would suspect that is the likely phenomenon you are seeing.
For example, here in Clark County WA we had several measles outbreaks a few years ago even though the measles vaccination rate was very high. That was because we had sub populations of Russian and Ukrainian immigrants who had very low vaccination rates and since they were tight knit communities attending the same schools, churches, and frequenting the same shops and restaurants the outbreak spread even though the general population was highly vaccinated. The same thing happened a couple years ago in tightly knit Hasidic Jewish communities with low vaccination rates.
I expect the same thing is happening to some extent in countries like Israel that have relatively high vaccination rates but still get outbreaks. Israel has a very patchy population that is not at all uniform. It is actually many many sub populations that live their lives more or less in separate bubbles.
ok...so what is the vaccine rate needed then? It was 70%, then 80%, but if you're saying "patchy" vaccination will still lead to outbreaks, then what are we really hoping for?
Denmark is an extremely compliant country, It's a safe bet to assume that 95%+ of people who CAN be vaccinated ARE vaccinated.
According to “our world in data” they are at about 75% fully vaccinated.
The point is that if vaccination rates were uniform across a population then you could look at the reproductive rate of the virus and come up with estimates of what sort of vaccination rate will be necessary to bring transmission to an end. However if they are patchy in that some regions or sub populations have much lower vaccination rates than the average you can still have outbreaks even with a high overall vaccination rate. This is true for any disease not just Covid. You could have a 99% vaccination rate, but if the 1% of unvaccinated are concentrated within certain neighborhoods or populations rather than spread out evenly you can still get bad outbreaks. Even if you have a 100% effective vaccine. Which we do not.
I really don’t know what is going on in Denmark. But I suspect they are like most other places in that their vaccination rate is not uniform, but that certain subpopulations or regions have higher and lower vaccination rates than the national average. Which means you still have regions or subpopulations that are vulnerable to outbreaks even with a high overall vaccination rate.
Denmark believed they were out of the woods, and returned things to normal. Denmark is a small county, with a very compliant population. I believe they keep track of their demographics very well. Are you suggesting they missed their own spotty vaccination?
ok...so what is the vaccine rate needed then? It was 70%, then 80%, but if you're saying "patchy" vaccination will still lead to outbreaks, then what are we really hoping for?
Denmark is an extremely compliant country, It's a safe bet to assume that 95%+ of people who CAN be vaccinated ARE vaccinated.
According to “our world in data” they are at about 75% fully vaccinated.
The point is that if vaccination rates were uniform across a population then you could look at the reproductive rate of the virus and come up with estimates of what sort of vaccination rate will be necessary to bring transmission to an end. However if they are patchy in that some regions or sub populations have much lower vaccination rates than the average you can still have outbreaks even with a high overall vaccination rate. This is true for any disease not just Covid. You could have a 99% vaccination rate, but if the 1% of unvaccinated are concentrated within certain neighborhoods or populations rather than spread out evenly you can still get bad outbreaks. Even if you have a 100% effective vaccine. Which we do not.
I really don’t know what is going on in Denmark. But I suspect they are like most other places in that their vaccination rate is not uniform, but that certain subpopulations or regions have higher and lower vaccination rates than the national average. Which means you still have regions or subpopulations that are vulnerable to outbreaks even with a high overall vaccination rate.
Denmark believed they were out of the woods, and returned things to normal. Denmark is a small county, with a very compliant population. I believe they keep track of their demographics very well. Are you suggesting they missed their own spotty vaccination?
No, I’m suggesting that vaccination rates are not uniform anywhere. They certainly aren’t in the US and they probably aren’t in Denmark either. You asked me to weigh in with an opinion on Denmark and I gave you an uninformed opinion/guess because I don’t really know anything about Denmark and haven’t paid it any attention.
You seem to think that any time you find a data anomaly or Covid spike anywhere in the world it means that vaccines are not working. I tend to think this is a complicated disease that is difficult to combat and that while vaccines are not 100% effective, they are still very effective at preventing infections and in reducing the severity of infections that do occur. And that while we will still see spikes and outbreaks anywhere from time to time, vaccines are still our best tool in combatting the pandemic.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
According to “our world in data” they are at about 75% fully vaccinated.
The point is that if vaccination rates were uniform across a population then you could look at the reproductive rate of the virus and come up with estimates of what sort of vaccination rate will be necessary to bring transmission to an end. However if they are patchy in that some regions or sub populations have much lower vaccination rates than the average you can still have outbreaks even with a high overall vaccination rate. This is true for any disease not just Covid. You could have a 99% vaccination rate, but if the 1% of unvaccinated are concentrated within certain neighborhoods or populations rather than spread out evenly you can still get bad outbreaks. Even if you have a 100% effective vaccine. Which we do not.
I really don’t know what is going on in Denmark. But I suspect they are like most other places in that their vaccination rate is not uniform, but that certain subpopulations or regions have higher and lower vaccination rates than the national average. Which means you still have regions or subpopulations that are vulnerable to outbreaks even with a high overall vaccination rate.
Denmark believed they were out of the woods, and returned things to normal. Denmark is a small county, with a very compliant population. I believe they keep track of their demographics very well. Are you suggesting they missed their own spotty vaccination?
No, I’m suggesting that vaccination rates are not uniform anywhere. They certainly aren’t in the US and they probably aren’t in Denmark either. You asked me to weigh in with an opinion on Denmark and I gave you an uninformed opinion/guess because I don’t really know anything about Denmark and haven’t paid it any attention.
You seem to think that any time you find a data anomaly or Covid spike anywhere in the world it means that vaccines are not working. I tend to think this is a complicated disease that is difficult to combat and that while vaccines are not 100% effective, they are still very effective at preventing infections and in reducing the severity of infections that do occur. And that while we will still see spikes and outbreaks anywhere from time to time, vaccines are still our best tool in combatting the pandemic.
The whole pandemic has been nothing bu anomalies.
"2 weeks to stop the spread"
"Denmark has fully vaccinated more than 88% of people older than 18 and an astonishing 97% of those over age 60, the group most vulnerable to serious COVID-19. That allows the country to try to treat SARS-CoV-2 like influenza and other infectious diseases instead of a threat to the entire health system. “We’re thinking of this virus now as a sort of defanged version of the original one. It has gotten its teeth pulled out by the vaccine,” Simonsen says. “What’s left is not much worse than diseases that we’re used to and that we don’t close schools for, like seasonal flu or maybe the 2009 influenza pandemic.”
2 months later..."just kidding, COVID is worse than ever"
The anomalies are everywhere, like Gibraltar. Meanwhile, 3rd world nations that didn't have access to vaccines seem to be fine, which gets handwaved.
Germany and Austria are expected to start force vaccinating people beginning in February 2021. In Austria, jab refusers will be fined thousands of euros or get a prison sentence if they don't/can't pay up.
Boy! It sure is a good thing Austria has one of those central databases for keeping accurate medical records — Right, progessives?
One wonders what will happen if fines or prison sentences aren't enough to get people to comply. Maybe people will be marked with yellow stars and trained into quarantine camps next.
Is God still in control or not ? Can He intervene whenever He choses ? I believe He is and we can live in peace and joy regardless of what is and may take place. What a blessing to be worry free if we chose to be.
