Dan Z wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:42 pm
There are a number of pretty decent studies out there on natural immunity - most show a robust level of reinfection protection, and a small chance of hospitalization and death for those re-infected. For example, a large study out of Israel (cited earlier I'm sure) showed natural immunity was a better protectant than the Phizer vaccine - although both vaccinated and previously infected had a low prevalence of severe COVID. Another one out of Qtar found that “Reinfections had 90% lower odds of resulting in hospitalization or death than primary infections.” Here is another large study that had similar results.
Bottom line - there seems to be pretty good evidence that surviving symptomatic COVID offers good protection - as good as, and sometimes better than the vaccine. It is still much less risky to not get COVID in the first place of course - and that's where the vaccine is most effective. Also most health authorities are still recommending at least a booster-level vaccine for those previously infected as a way of beefing up antibody response and limiting further spread to the vulnerable.
Yes, I think that's accurate.
In Germany, regulations often follow a "2G" protocol - people who are vaccinated or who have recovered from Covid (as verified by a test) are treated the same.
ST. LOUIS — A federal judge on Monday blocked President Joe Biden’s administration from enforcing a coronavirus vaccine mandate on thousands of health care workers in 10 states that had brought the first legal challenge against the requirement.
The court order said that the federal Centers for Medicare & Medicaid had no clear authority from Congress to enact the vaccine mandate for providers participating in the two government health care programs for the elderly, disabled and poor.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
The CMS has mandated flu vaccines before being tied to the federal money. I doubt this will stand.
The only way I see a state breaking with this mandate is to fund the Medicaid and Medicare themselves, otherwise the government can withhold the funding. Those who pay the bills, control the use.
I expect it will eventually end up in the supreme court and I haven't see the supreme court rule very favorably on medical workers so far.
Although existing rodent models of coronavirus infection have made several important contributions, none possesses the diverse set of primary human lung cells that serve as targets for viral infection16. Here we show that immunodeficient mice implanted with authentic human lung tissue17 (that is, LoM) allow for the in vivo study of infection with SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV or SARS-CoV-2 in a single platform that permits the direct comparison of experimental outcomes. Using LoM, we show efficient replication of bat coronaviruses in vivo without the need for virus adaptation. We also performed an in-depth in vivo analysis of acute SARS-CoV-2 infection in human lung tissue from LoM, which revealed robust virus replication, pathogenesis and sustained activation of the human innate immune response. Finally, we show that EIDD-2801—an orally administered, broad-spectrum antiviral agent that is currently in phase II/III clinical trials for the treatment of COVID-19—efficiently inhibited SARS-CoV-2 replication in human lung tissue from LoM when administered therapeutically, and prevented SARS-CoV-2 infection when administered as pre-exposure prophylaxis, which together strongly support its further clinical development for COVID-19.
LoM are constructed by the subcutaneous implantation of human lung tissue into the back of immunodeficient mice (Fig. 1a). This tissue expands to form a palpable implant17 (Fig. 1a). Lung implants contain human fibroblasts, epithelial, endothelial and mesenchymal cells that form cartilaginous and noncartilaginous bronchial airways that are lined with ciliated and nonciliated epithelium, alveolar sac structures and extensive vasculature17 (Extended Data Fig. 1a, b). The human lung tissue in LoM has previously been shown to support the replication of a diverse set of emerging and clinically relevant human pathogens, including MERS-CoV17.
Construction of humanized mice
LoM were constructed with 1 or 2 human lung implants by surgically implanting human lung tissue (Advanced Bioscience Resources) subcutaneously into the upper and lower back of male and female 12–21-week- old NOD.Cg-Prkdcscid ll2rgtm1Wjl/SzJ mice (NSG mice) (The Jackson Laboratory), as previously described17. Engraftment of lung tissue was assessed by palpation, and by eight weeks after surgery mice were ready for experimentation.
Soloist wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:44 pm
The CMS has mandated flu vaccines before being tied to the federal money. I doubt this will stand.
The only way I see a state breaking with this mandate is to fund the Medicaid and Medicare themselves, otherwise the government can withhold the funding. Those who pay the bills, control the use.
Not remotely conceivable that would ever happen. Medicare is a Federal program and retirees in a state like say...Texas...are absolutely NOT going to want a crummy penny-pinching Texas version of Medicare rather than the real thing. But more importantly, it isn't the direct money spent on the program that is at issue. It is hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics who take Medicare dollars from patients.
All the hospitals in Texas would have to agree to stop seeing Medicare patients, or agree not to take any money when they do see Medicare patients and the state would have to step in and compensate them for the tens of billions of dollars that would represent. That will absolutely not ever happen. A quick bit of googling tells me that Medicare spends $28.5 BILLION dollars in Texas alone. Medicaid is another $40 BILLION per year. You think Texans are going to take on that burden just over vaccine mandates? Or any other state for that matter?
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Fascinating bit: Florida, which has refused extended lockdowns and refused to implement mask mandates now has the lowest rate of daily coronavirus cases per capita in the nation. Yes, Virginia, there is a phenomenon called "herd immunity".
MaxPC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:28 am
Fascinating bit: Florida, which has refused extended lockdowns and refused to implement mask mandates now has the lowest rate of daily coronavirus cases per capita in the nation. Yes, Virginia, there is a phenomenon called "herd immunity".
Previously, Florida was 7th in the ranking of states with highest number of covid deaths/million. It has since dropped down to 9th. Still dramatically higher than its position near California in the 20s on the list during much of the pandemic.
The virus spreads more quickly as people congregate indoors, so what I've heard is that southern states tend to have waves of the virus in the heat of summer as people stay inside due to hot weather, where northern states tend to have waves in the winters as people stay inside due to the cold. Not sure whether this is accurate but it makes sense.
mike wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:42 am
The virus spreads more quickly as people congregate indoors, so what I've heard is that southern states tend to have waves of the virus in the heat of summer as people stay inside due to hot weather, where northern states tend to have waves in the winters as people stay inside due to the cold. Not sure whether this is accurate but it makes sense.
Peek heat in the south is July August. I do not see the peek hitting there. I see it a little after that.
The other issue with Florida is the high level of elderly. It makes sense that its death rate would be up some.
0 x
Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.
I think I am funnier than I really am.
mike wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:42 am
The virus spreads more quickly as people congregate indoors, so what I've heard is that southern states tend to have waves of the virus in the heat of summer as people stay inside due to hot weather, where northern states tend to have waves in the winters as people stay inside due to the cold. Not sure whether this is accurate but it makes sense.
Peek heat in the south is July August. I do not see the peek hitting there. I see it a little after that.
The other issue with Florida is the high level of elderly. It makes sense that its death rate would be up some.
Cases in Florida peaked in mid-August and began to drop at the end of August, near the end of peak summer heat in Florida.
I agree with the high level of elderly, and it is a wonder that it took a year and a half of the pandemic for that to be reflected in the virus numbers in Florida.
Although existing rodent models of coronavirus infection have made several important contributions, none possesses the diverse set of primary human lung cells that serve as targets for viral infection16. Here we show that immunodeficient mice implanted with authentic human lung tissue17 (that is, LoM) allow for the in vivo study of infection with SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV or SARS-CoV-2 in a single platform that permits the direct comparison of experimental outcomes. Using LoM, we show efficient replication of bat coronaviruses in vivo without the need for virus adaptation. We also performed an in-depth in vivo analysis of acute SARS-CoV-2 infection in human lung tissue from LoM, which revealed robust virus replication, pathogenesis and sustained activation of the human innate immune response. Finally, we show that EIDD-2801—an orally administered, broad-spectrum antiviral agent that is currently in phase II/III clinical trials for the treatment of COVID-19—efficiently inhibited SARS-CoV-2 replication in human lung tissue from LoM when administered therapeutically, and prevented SARS-CoV-2 infection when administered as pre-exposure prophylaxis, which together strongly support its further clinical development for COVID-19.
LoM are constructed by the subcutaneous implantation of human lung tissue into the back of immunodeficient mice (Fig. 1a). This tissue expands to form a palpable implant17 (Fig. 1a). Lung implants contain human fibroblasts, epithelial, endothelial and mesenchymal cells that form cartilaginous and noncartilaginous bronchial airways that are lined with ciliated and nonciliated epithelium, alveolar sac structures and extensive vasculature17 (Extended Data Fig. 1a, b). The human lung tissue in LoM has previously been shown to support the replication of a diverse set of emerging and clinically relevant human pathogens, including MERS-CoV17.
Construction of humanized mice
LoM were constructed with 1 or 2 human lung implants by surgically implanting human lung tissue (Advanced Bioscience Resources) subcutaneously into the upper and lower back of male and female 12–21-week- old NOD.Cg-Prkdcscid ll2rgtm1Wjl/SzJ mice (NSG mice) (The Jackson Laboratory), as previously described17. Engraftment of lung tissue was assessed by palpation, and by eight weeks after surgery mice were ready for experimentation.
