Coronavirus Outbreak

[Dan Z]

The hospitals make money by killing people. They don’t want patients quickly cured with a cheap and easy and readily available drug.

This is an undeserved insult to the women and men of the health care community Josh - including some of them here on MennoNet! They are working too hard, risking their own health caring for others (including I assume you someday when you need it) to be insulted like this in a public forum by you. Shame!

[nett]

The hospitals make money by killing people. They don’t want patients quickly cured with a cheap and easy and readily available drug.

This is an undeserved insult to the women and men of the health care community Josh - including some of them here on MennoNet! They are working too hard, risking their own health caring for others (including I assume you someday when you need it) to be insulted like this in a public forum by you. Shame!

Josh is talking the medical system as a system, not individuals. Relax.

My SIL is an ER nurse, and one of our close friends is an ICU nurse. They both essentially say the same thing, once people are admitted, it's basically hopeless. The system has very little to offer them.

[Robert]

The hospitals make money by killing people. They don’t want patients quickly cured with a cheap and easy and readily available drug.

This is an undeserved insult to the women and men of the health care community Josh - including some of them here on MennoNet! They are working too hard, risking their own health caring for others (including I assume you someday when you need it) to be insulted like this in a public forum by you. Shame!

Josh, you have been doing really well in your posting until just lately. You have returned to the harsh rhetoric and attacks. I think you should stop, take a few breaths and consider that what you are wanting to say is disappearing behind the way you are saying it.

I think we all need to do that. Dan, even the Shame statement takes away from your otherwise good post. We all do it and we all need to work at doing better. Following Jesus is a journey, not a perfection. Let us all work to be on the journey following Jesus, not watching him walk way ahead or behind us.

[Valerie]

https://rescue.substack.com/p/a-judge-s ... pital-step

A Judge Stands up to a Hospital: "Step Aside" and Give a Dying Man Ivermectin
A Chicago-area judge saved a grandfather's life with the single question that exposes hospitals blocking doctors from using a safe, FDA-approved drug: Why?

Sun Ng, a retired contractor from Hong Kong, traveled to Illinois to celebrate his only granddaughter’s first birthday. He got covid and was near death in a Chicago-area hospital. All other options were exhausted, but the hospital refused to give Mr. Ng a generic, FDA-approved drug with an extraordinary safety record that a doctor believed could safe his life.

Finally, a judge asked the right question about ivermectin.

“What’s the downside?”

Put another way: If a man is dying of covid in an ICU and all else has been tried, why not order a hospital to give a safe, last-ditch drug?

Edward Hospital, located near Chicago, offered three arguments as to why Sun Ng, seventy-one, should not be given ivermectin:

There could be side effects.

Ordering ivermectin would violate its policies.

Forcing the issue would be “extraordinary” judicial overreach.

On each argument, DuPage County Circuit Court Judge Paul Fullerton firmly disagreed.

“I can’t think of a more extraordinary situation than when we are talking about a man’s life,” he said in a November 5 decision that is a model of rational decision-making in an irrational era.

“I am not forcing this hospital to do anything other than to step aside,” he continued in a Zoom hearing. “I am just asking—or not asking—I am ordering through the Court’s power to allow Dr. Bain to have the emergency privileges and administer this medicine.”

The hospital ultimately stepped aside. Dr. Alan Bain, an internist, administered a five-day course of 24 milligrams of ivermectin, from November 8 through November 12.

Ng, who with his wife, Ying, had come from Hong Kong to celebrate their granddaughter’s birthday, was able to breathe without a ventilator within five days—he, in fact, removed the endotracheal himself. He left the ICU Tuesday, November 16, and, although confused and weak, was breathing Sunday without supplemental oxygen on a regular hospital floor.

“Every day after ivermectin, there was accelerated and stable improvement,” said Dr. Bain, who administered the drug in two previous court cases after hospitals refused. “Three times we’ve shown something,” he told me. “There’s a signal of benefit for ventilator patients.”

Ng’s remarkable progress stands in sharp relief to the repeated attempts by Edward-Elmhurst Health, the hospital’s managing system, to thwart the use of ivermectin. It succeeded in having the court’s initial November 1 order dismissed by claiming Ng was in better health than his lawsuit contended (he wasn’t). It then defied the November 5 order, saying Dr. Bain was not vaccinated (a negative test resolved the issue).

Moreover, after Ng’s treatment was complete, the hospital system filed notice that it would appeal the order that had already been carried out. It did this even though Sun Ng seemed to have benefited greatly.

The patient’s improvement, or condition generally, did not seem to matter.

At the outset, the hospital argued against court intervention, saying, “Mr. Ng is not terminal at this point.” But it was forced to admit that he had for days teetered on the brink of death after Ng’s daughter and only child, Man Kwan Ng, spoke to a hospital doctor November 3—and took copious notes that were submitted to the court.

Everyone jumped on Josh without commenting on this important & "telling" case??
Are we blind to what seems to be glaring information, that this is not an isolated case where patients are denied and inexpensive treatment that could save their lives even in the case they are apparently on their deathbed anyway? Why do you think the public starts to question the practice of hospitals?

When my husband was in the early days of his covid I talked to a nurse in Tennessee who is against the vaccine as many healthcare people have been (even those that work with covid patients have told me they don't want the vaccine) and this nurse used ivermectin herself and instructed me on how to. I asked her why they are denying it's used in the hospital or before a patient needs the hospital, and she said she didn't know but she thinks it's coming from higher up.

People can't help but be suspicious. They are not blaming healthcare workers but those that are making decisions about them.

Again the case that Robert pointed out here is not isolated I've heard many times that people had to get a lawyer involved to get their loved one treated with ivermectin because it works.

[Josh]

The hospitals make money by killing people. They don’t want patients quickly cured with a cheap and easy and readily available drug.

This is an undeserved insult to the women and men of the health care community Josh - including some of them here on MennoNet! They are working too hard, risking their own health caring for others (including I assume you someday when you need it) to be insulted like this in a public forum by you. Shame!

OK, let me rephrase.

The hospital systems are killing people. Most people who go in for COVID and get put on a ventilator don't survive.

The people in the hospital systems are, mostly, good people, including lots of my family members.

We should be free to criticise a bad system even as we acknowledge people working very hard within that system. When a system becomes "above criticism", it becomes unaccountable, and I believe that is where the U.S. public health system is right now. To point out the obvious (that people who go in and get put on ventilators don't survive) results in personal attacks along with veiled threats about how I will be deprived access to medical care if I don't (a) get vaccinated and (b) engage in appropriate worship of the hospital and medical system.

[Dan Z]

Dan, even the Shame statement takes away from your otherwise good post. We all do it and we all need to work at doing better. Following Jesus is a journey, not a perfection. Let us all work to be on the journey following Jesus, not watching him walk way ahead or behind us.

I appreciate and accept this gentle rebuke Robert. Shaming Josh was an unbrotherly response - and I apologize for that. Sorry Josh.

I had reacted to the statement "The hospitals make money by killing people" too personally perhaps. The problem is I have a number of medical people in my immediate and extended family who have worked in hospitals. I have a skilled Nurse Practitioner daughter who puts herself in harm's way daily using the best science and medicine available to help people get well again. I've also personally been the recipient of life-saving hospital care at the hands of gifted and dedicated surgeons and hospital staff who deserve to be commended for all they do as far as I am concerned.

Some of my frustration goes beyond Josh's comments though.

I'm getting really tired of the unfair cynicism that a portion of society and MennoNet has been relentlessly levying at the health care community as this pandemic has dragged on. Talk about shooting the messenger! Yes, it is a de-personalized critique when "systems" are evoked instead of individuals, but healthcare systems, from first responders to surgeons, are made up of people who, by and large, are honor-bound to make decisions with the best interest of their patients in mind. Any one of us who has been cared for by the health community can attest to this. These trained experts have given years of their lives in preparation for what they do, and the implication that they are somehow in collusion with an evil "system" that wants to harm or kill people to pad its coffers is a slanderous accusation.

Do hospitals and healthcare systems need to make money to survive - sure they do! Does greed sometimes play a role - human nature and capitalist instincts say "yes!" Are "big pharma," "big insurance," "big healthcare," and "big government" issues that need societal attention - surely! But when the critique devolves to ungrounded cynicism and pseudoscience assaulting frontline healthcare workers, like it has, an unhelpful line is being crossed.

[Robert]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... -symptoms/

The first South African doctor to alert the authorities about patients with the omicron variant has told The Telegraph that the symptoms of the new variant are unusual but mild.

Dr Angelique Coetzee said she was first alerted to the possibility of a new variant when patients in her busy private practice in the capital Pretoria started to come in earlier this month with Covid-19 symptoms that did not make immediate sense.

They included young people of different backgrounds and ethnicities with intense fatigue and a six-year-old child with a very high pulse rate, she said. None suffered from a loss of taste or smell.

“Their symptoms were so different and so mild from those I had treated before,” said Dr Coetzee, a GP for 33 years who chairs the South African Medical Association alongside running her practice.

On November 18, when four family members all tested positive for Covid-19 with complete exhaustion, she informed the country’s vaccine advisory committee.

She said, in total, about two dozen of her patients have tested positive for Covid-19 with symptoms of the new variant. They were mostly healthy men who turned up “feeling so tired”. About half of them were unvaccinated.

[nett]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-heal ... -symptoms/

The first South African doctor to alert the authorities about patients with the omicron variant has told The Telegraph that the symptoms of the new variant are unusual but mild.

Dr Angelique Coetzee said she was first alerted to the possibility of a new variant when patients in her busy private practice in the capital Pretoria started to come in earlier this month with Covid-19 symptoms that did not make immediate sense.

They included young people of different backgrounds and ethnicities with intense fatigue and a six-year-old child with a very high pulse rate, she said. None suffered from a loss of taste or smell.

“Their symptoms were so different and so mild from those I had treated before,” said Dr Coetzee, a GP for 33 years who chairs the South African Medical Association alongside running her practice.

On November 18, when four family members all tested positive for Covid-19 with complete exhaustion, she informed the country’s vaccine advisory committee.

She said, in total, about two dozen of her patients have tested positive for Covid-19 with symptoms of the new variant. They were mostly healthy men who turned up “feeling so tired”. About half of them were unvaccinated.

That sounds like a common cold. I just had those exact symptoms for about a week...

[RZehr]

I’m happy to report that both men I knew in the hospital with Covid last week are now home. And my father-in-law and mother-in-law are doing much better.

[Ken]

I’m happy to report that both men I knew in the hospital with Covid last week are now home. And my father-in-law and mother-in-law are doing much better.

I had an uncle in Oregon who collapsed recently, passed out, and was brought to the hospital in an ambulance where he spent maybe a week but is also now back home. He was unvaccinated and in his late 80s. Pretty much in denial about the fact that he caught and had Covid but he did test positive when they screened him at the hospital. I have no idea what kind of treatment/medications he received but he never got to the point of being put on a ventilator.

It is kind of a reminder that even those who are at high risk of complications, or who have co-morbidities, still generally tend to get better. This is a deadly disease only in the aggregate. At the individual level 99% (or whatever the number is now) do eventually get better.