Haiti Kidnapping

[Ken]

I don’t expect churches are going to need to raise the money as you suggest. Both the Washington Post and NYT coverage of the kidnapping suggests that CAM likely has Kidnapping and Ransom insurance that would cover this event. I don’t know if that is actually the case. I doubt they would make it public if they did since it would affect negotiations. But such policies are common and there are faith-based companies dedicated specifically to providing such policies too mission organizations. For example: https://www.faithventures.com/kidnap-ransom-coverage/

Statistically, most international kidnappings of Americans are resolved after ransom gets paid. It is the most likely outcome. Killing 17 hostages would be a very foolish move by this criminal gang as it would invite some manner of horrible retribution or enforcement action by the US military and would paint permanent targets on all of their heads by the FBI, Interpol, etc. They would become wanted and hunted criminals and their leaders would be subject to Bin Laden style US special forces raids. They have to know that and it has no doubt been explained to them by whatever US officials are involved in negotiations. I doubt any of them want to spend the rest of their lives looking over their heads for a predator or reaper drone strike.

[ken_sylvania]

I don’t expect churches are going to need to raise the money as you suggest. Both the Washington Post and NYT coverage of the kidnapping suggests that CAM likely has Kidnapping and Ransom insurance that would cover this event. I don’t know if that is actually the case. I doubt they would make it public if they did since it would affect negotiations. But such policies are common and there are faith-based companies dedicated specifically to providing such policies too mission organizations. For example: https://www.faithventures.com/kidnap-ransom-coverage/

Statistically, most international kidnappings of Americans are resolved after ransom gets paid. It is the most likely outcome. Killing 17 hostages would be a very foolish move by this criminal gang as it would invite some manner of horrible retribution or enforcement action by the US military and would paint permanent targets on all of their heads by the FBI, Interpol, etc. They would become wanted and hunted criminals and their leaders would be subject to Bin Laden style US special forces raids. They have to know that and it has no doubt been explained to them by whatever US officials are involved in negotiations. I doubt any of them want to spend the rest of their lives looking over their heads for a predator or reaper drone strike.

Uh-huh..I'm sure the WP and NYT would be well positioned to know how CAM does things...

[Ken]

I don’t expect churches are going to need to raise the money as you suggest. Both the Washington Post and NYT coverage of the kidnapping suggests that CAM likely has Kidnapping and Ransom insurance that would cover this event. I don’t know if that is actually the case. I doubt they would make it public if they did since it would affect negotiations. But such policies are common and there are faith-based companies dedicated specifically to providing such policies too mission organizations. For example: https://www.faithventures.com/kidnap-ransom-coverage/

Statistically, most international kidnappings of Americans are resolved after ransom gets paid. It is the most likely outcome. Killing 17 hostages would be a very foolish move by this criminal gang as it would invite some manner of horrible retribution or enforcement action by the US military and would paint permanent targets on all of their heads by the FBI, Interpol, etc. They would become wanted and hunted criminals and their leaders would be subject to Bin Laden style US special forces raids. They have to know that and it has no doubt been explained to them by whatever US officials are involved in negotiations. I doubt any of them want to spend the rest of their lives looking over their heads for a predator or reaper drone strike.

Uh-huh..I'm sure the WP and NYT would be well positioned to know how CAM does things...

They do have a lot of experienced reporters who know how to ask questions. They probably talked to a lot of people in the CAM mission orbit as well as from similar organizations. That would be an obvious question to ask. But yes, if you are CAM and involved in hostage negotiations, the presence or absence of a K&R insurance policy and what the policy limits are is something you would want to keep confidential.

[ragpicker]

I don’t expect churches are going to need to raise the money as you suggest. Both the Washington Post and NYT coverage of the kidnapping suggests that CAM likely has Kidnapping and Ransom insurance that would cover this event. I don’t know if that is actually the case. I doubt they would make it public if they did since it would affect negotiations. But such policies are common and there are faith-based companies dedicated specifically to providing such policies too mission organizations. For example: https://www.faithventures.com/kidnap-ransom-coverage/

Statistically, most international kidnappings of Americans are resolved after ransom gets paid. It is the most likely outcome. Killing 17 hostages would be a very foolish move by this criminal gang as it would invite some manner of horrible retribution or enforcement action by the US military and would paint permanent targets on all of their heads by the FBI, Interpol, etc. They would become wanted and hunted criminals and their leaders would be subject to Bin Laden style US special forces raids. They have to know that and it has no doubt been explained to them by whatever US officials are involved in negotiations. I doubt any of them want to spend the rest of their lives looking over their heads for a predator or reaper drone strike.

Uh-huh..I'm sure the WP and NYT would be well positioned to know how CAM does things...

Exactly. And there’s few newspapers with lower credibility.

[ragpicker]

I don’t expect churches are going to need to raise the money as you suggest. Both the Washington Post and NYT coverage of the kidnapping suggests that CAM likely has Kidnapping and Ransom insurance that would cover this event. I don’t know if that is actually the case. I doubt they would make it public if they did since it would affect negotiations. But such policies are common and there are faith-based companies dedicated specifically to providing such policies too mission organizations. For example: https://www.faithventures.com/kidnap-ransom-coverage/

Statistically, most international kidnappings of Americans are resolved after ransom gets paid. It is the most likely outcome. Killing 17 hostages would be a very foolish move by this criminal gang as it would invite some manner of horrible retribution or enforcement action by the US military and would paint permanent targets on all of their heads by the FBI, Interpol, etc. They would become wanted and hunted criminals and their leaders would be subject to Bin Laden style US special forces raids. They have to know that and it has no doubt been explained to them by whatever US officials are involved in negotiations. I doubt any of them want to spend the rest of their lives looking over their heads for a predator or reaper drone strike.

Do you have any trustworthy news sources for this?

[Ken]

Do you have any trustworthy news sources for this?

Here is one source: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation ... 47071.html

According to the Center for Analysis and Research in Human Rights in Port-au-Prince, at least 803 people have been abducted between January and October of this year, including at least 54 foreigners. Gédéon Jean, the director of the center, said his group is conducting its own investigation into the missionaries’ kidnapping. One question they are seeking an answer to is whether it was only 17 foreigners who were kidnapped.

“In general, missionaries have a Haitian driver, and they usually have someone translating for them,” Jean said. “When we were alerted about the kidnapping, we were told that the gang had kidnapped foreigners and Haitians. So we are asking if there isn’t at least one Haitian in the group.” Jean said his research into Haiti’s kidnapping pandemic has revealed that Americans have not been spared. “In one year, they kidnapped 60 Americans,” he said. “There is a practice of kidnapping Americans in Haiti.” One well-known case happened more than 40 years ago on Jan. 23, 1973, and involved the U.S. Ambassador at the time, Clinton E. Knox, and Consul General Ward L. Christensen. Both were held at gunpoint for almost 20 hours inside Knox’s Port-au-Prince residence. They were freed in exchange for the release of 12 Haitian prisoners, a ransom of $70,000 and safe passage to Mexico for the kidnappers, two gunmen and a woman, and the prisoners. The negotiations were conducted personally by Haiti’s president, Jean-Claude “Baby Doc” Duvalier, who at the time was just 21 years old.

A State Department spokesman at the time said that the kidnappers had asked for “$500,000,” which the U.S. flatly turned down. He also said the payment was not made by the U.S. government.

Jean said decades later Americans are still being kidnapped, and later freed — but only after a ransom is paid in the vast number of cases.

[steve-in-kville]

I wonder which would leave the greater testimony to the world around, 17 people being martyred for Christ or the believers banding together to raise 17 million for the release of their brothers and sisters in the Lord?
I added up the membership reported in the 2018 Mennonite Church Directory published by CLP(the most recent one I have) . If I added correctly, there were 47,767 members at that time. If each member could contribute an average of $355.90, that would be the 17 million needed. True, probably 1/3 of those people would not support CAM for one reason or another. Even so a contribution of less than $500.00 per member would supply the funds needed. I think that would be doable without working a long-term hardship on anyone.

This isn't about money. Its already available, and has always been. Its down to strategy, ethics and politics at this point, many of which has been discussed in this thread. We need to pray for the ones calling the shots at this point.

[Josh]

As I keep pointing out, most Haitians are very anti-kidnappings and don’t want violent gangsters to keep getting more money and control.

Giving them $17 million is inherently immoral.

[temporal1]

As I keep pointing out, most Haitians are very anti-kidnappings and don’t want violent gangsters to keep getting more money and control.

Giving them $17 million is inherently immoral.

once the gangsters read this forum to understand how easy the money is to come by, “it’s just math,” and, the forum’s tutorial on “how to run a clean+lucrative, respectable kidnapping enterprise,” the next ransom demand will be for $34+ million (dig a little deeper) ..
after all, the I.Q.s of these chaps surely matches or exceeds those in Congress, who make lifelong careers out of extortion.

thankfully, many remain vigilant in prayer for all involved. esp for converted hearts - the real answer to sin.
the reason these missionaries are present in Haiti, and other troubled places.

OP, request for prayer:

Just received word that 17 people have been kidnapped by a Haitian gang.
As far as I know they are under CAM, but not sure if they all are, or if some are not.
One of the kidnapped is my nephew who just arrived in Haiti yesterday.
Sounds like the group had gone to visit an orphanage.

Please pray for the situation.

steve:
.. We need to pray for the ones calling the shots at this point.

not only in this moment, but, no matter outcome, this incident will be with them for life. a great burden.

[Ken]

I doubt Haitian kidnappers are reading Mennonet in order to gauge the wealth of their captives. They set their ransom amounts before this event became public.

In any event, they likely overestimate the wealth of most Americans. In my experience, most folks in the 3rd World have an over-inflated notion of how much personal wealth most Americans have. And they conflate the wealth of the country with individual wealth. And most of the media coverage coming out of the US is celebrity coverage of the rich and famous.

And by all reports, this is a long-standing problem in Haiti. The country has been on US “do not travel” lists for some time due to the threat of kidnapping. So I expect these criminal gangs actually do know what they are doing. They certainly have a lot of experience with it.