Haiti Kidnapping

[Josh]

To anyone's immediate knowledge, are all the hostages still in captivity?

What do you mean by "still in captivity?"

If any of them were freed we would no doubt hear about it on the news. That isn't the sort of thing you can keep secret.
If any of them were no longer alive we might or might not actually hear about it depending on the circumstances.

I'm actually somewhat puzzled by how long this has gone on. If this is simply a financial negotiation one would expect them to have been able to reach some deal by now. I don't have the impression that this is an ideological kidnaping of the sort that happens in places like Syria where hostages are taken for ideological/political leverage or human shields. It sounds like they just want money. And it would seem to be in everyone's interest including the kidnappers to bring it to a swift conclusion.

Perhaps the governments involved don’t want duffel bags of $17 million cash given to a group of armed violent criminals trying to take over the country.

[nett]

To anyone's immediate knowledge, are all the hostages still in captivity?

What do you mean by "still in captivity?"

If any of them were freed we would no doubt hear about it on the news. That isn't the sort of thing you can keep secret.
If any of them were no longer alive we might or might not actually hear about it depending on the circumstances.

I'm actually somewhat puzzled by how long this has gone on. If this is simply a financial negotiation one would expect them to have been able to reach some deal by now. I don't have the impression that this is an ideological kidnaping of the sort that happens in places like Syria where hostages are taken for ideological/political leverage or human shields. It sounds like they just want money. And it would seem to be in everyone's interest including the kidnappers to bring it to a swift conclusion.

Ok, and why wouldn't that group immediately go kidnap some more missionaries to make more money?

[Ken]

To anyone's immediate knowledge, are all the hostages still in captivity?

What do you mean by "still in captivity?"

If any of them were freed we would no doubt hear about it on the news. That isn't the sort of thing you can keep secret.
If any of them were no longer alive we might or might not actually hear about it depending on the circumstances.

I'm actually somewhat puzzled by how long this has gone on. If this is simply a financial negotiation one would expect them to have been able to reach some deal by now. I don't have the impression that this is an ideological kidnaping of the sort that happens in places like Syria where hostages are taken for ideological/political leverage or human shields. It sounds like they just want money. And it would seem to be in everyone's interest including the kidnappers to bring it to a swift conclusion.

Ok, and why wouldn't that group immediately go kidnap some more missionaries to make more money?

I'm sure they will if more missionaries are foolish enough to travel through that part of Haiti unguarded. Regardless of whether this particular ransom gets paid or not. There have been what? 300 different kidnappings in Haiti over the past year?

[nett]

What do you mean by "still in captivity?"

If any of them were freed we would no doubt hear about it on the news. That isn't the sort of thing you can keep secret.
If any of them were no longer alive we might or might not actually hear about it depending on the circumstances.

I'm actually somewhat puzzled by how long this has gone on. If this is simply a financial negotiation one would expect them to have been able to reach some deal by now. I don't have the impression that this is an ideological kidnaping of the sort that happens in places like Syria where hostages are taken for ideological/political leverage or human shields. It sounds like they just want money. And it would seem to be in everyone's interest including the kidnappers to bring it to a swift conclusion.

Ok, and why wouldn't that group immediately go kidnap some more missionaries to make more money?

I'm sure they will if more missionaries are foolish enough to travel through that part of Haiti unguarded. Regardless of whether this particular ransom gets paid or not. There have been what? 300 different kidnappings in Haiti over the past year?

The CT article that someone above linked correctly points out that Haiti is more dangerous than a lot of these organizations realized. I am sympathetic to the emotions of finding that out after your loved ones are kidnapped.

However, this whole thing really smacks of inequality and American / Anabaptist exceptionalism. As you aptly point out, there have been 100s of kidnappings in Haiti this year. Why did we hear nothing of them until it was westerners.

Why do they deserve to have their ransom paid and to get out alive, just because they are associated with people (supports) and organizations (CAM) with extraordinary means? Doesn't seem very just to me.

[Ken]

Ok, and why wouldn't that group immediately go kidnap some more missionaries to make more money?

I'm sure they will if more missionaries are foolish enough to travel through that part of Haiti unguarded. Regardless of whether this particular ransom gets paid or not. There have been what? 300 different kidnappings in Haiti over the past year?

The CT article that someone above linked correctly points out that Haiti is more dangerous than a lot of these organizations realized. I am sympathetic to the emotions of finding that out after your loved ones are kidnapped.

However, this whole thing really smacks of inequality and American / Anabaptist exceptionalism. As you aptly point out, there have been 100s of kidnappings in Haiti this year. Why did we hear nothing of them until it was westerners.

Why do they deserve to have their ransom paid and to get out alive, just because they are associated with people (supports) and organizations (CAM) with extraordinary means? Doesn't seem very just to me.

I expect that most of the extended families and the churches of the folks involved could probably raise the money themselves without help of CAM or the government or any other organization. A couple of second mortgages, some HELOC funds, etc. We aren't talking about absolutely enormous sums, especially to the extend that they get bargained down.

It's not about "deserving" to have their ransom paid. It is about whether or not the families have the resources to do it. Just like any other expensive life or death situation like need for a bone marrow transplant. If your child needs one you don't wring your hands worrying about whether they "deserve" it. You do what you need to in order to make it happen.

[steve-in-kville]

It's not about "deserving" to have their ransom paid. It is about whether or not the families have the resources to do it. Just like any other expensive life or death situation like need for a bone marrow transplant. If your child needs one you don't wring your hands worrying about whether they "deserve" it. You do what you need to in order to make it happen.

I'm not gonna pretend to know what this feels like for families of the hostages. But I do have experience in dealing with the unknown, or where some government agency knows things but won't share it with you for their own tactical or strategic reasons. Where they want to maintain their "edge" in the situation. I cannot think of anything more frustrating than that.

[MaxPC]

I'm not gonna pretend to know what this feels like for families of the hostages. But I do have experience in dealing with the unknown, or where some government agency knows things but won't share it with you for their own tactical or strategic reasons. Where they want to maintain their "edge" in the situation. I cannot think of anything more frustrating than that.

Put not your trust in princes, in mortal men in whom there is no hope. Take their breath, they return to clay, and their plans that day come to nothing (Psalm 146:3-4).

My POV: Missionaries since the time of Jesus travelled to dangerous places; some were martyred; some were instrumental in conversions; indeed, their very martyrdom effected the conversions of hundreds even thousands. While it was difficult for the families, God used these martyrs to spread His message of mercy. They have their eternal reward in heaven.

YMMV.

[nett]

I'm sure they will if more missionaries are foolish enough to travel through that part of Haiti unguarded. Regardless of whether this particular ransom gets paid or not. There have been what? 300 different kidnappings in Haiti over the past year?

The CT article that someone above linked correctly points out that Haiti is more dangerous than a lot of these organizations realized. I am sympathetic to the emotions of finding that out after your loved ones are kidnapped.

However, this whole thing really smacks of inequality and American / Anabaptist exceptionalism. As you aptly point out, there have been 100s of kidnappings in Haiti this year. Why did we hear nothing of them until it was westerners.

Why do they deserve to have their ransom paid and to get out alive, just because they are associated with people (supports) and organizations (CAM) with extraordinary means? Doesn't seem very just to me.

I expect that most of the extended families and the churches of the folks involved could probably raise the money themselves without help of CAM or the government or any other organization. A couple of second mortgages, some HELOC funds, etc. We aren't talking about absolutely enormous sums, especially to the extend that they get bargained down.

It's not about "deserving" to have their ransom paid. It is about whether or not the families have the resources to do it. Just like any other expensive life or death situation like need for a bone marrow transplant. If your child needs one you don't wring your hands worrying about whether they "deserve" it. You do what you need to in order to make it happen.

They want $17m...

[steve-in-kville]

I would hope that this "interagency" is doing what they can to at least get the children out of there.

[Josh]

It's not about "deserving" to have their ransom paid. It is about whether or not the families have the resources to do it. Just like any other expensive life or death situation like need for a bone marrow transplant. If your child needs one you don't wring your hands worrying about whether they "deserve" it. You do what you need to in order to make it happen.

Except the entire point of overseas missions is to a blessing to other people.

Sending missionaries some place where the net effect is that $17 million gets given to a violent criminal gang going around kidnapping people hardly seems like a "blessing" to those people.

I'm also not sure why a bone marrow transplant is an "expensive life or death" situation. It's covered by Medicaid and covered by health insurance plans too. There is, however, considerable research showing chemotherapy is as effective and is less risky and less expensive.

I get very sceptical when people seem to need million-dollar treatments that Medicaid and private health insurance won't pay for, often provided at some special clinic in Mexico or in the U.S. that performs "alternative" treatments. (These kind of things are very popular amongst plain people.) In my experience, most of these "clinics" are simply making a lot of money off of gullible people.