Critical Race Theory and systemic inequalities

[Ken]

Yet I’m not talking about race or racism at all. I am talking purely about class. And what I described specifically above is not about immigrants or about non-white people.

This isn’t “systemic racism”. I don’t want my kids to go to school with drug dealers. Is that a bad thing?

And of course most racists say exactly the same thing. They claim their attitudes aren't about race at all. Just innocent things like property values or crime or school quality, traffic, noise, cultural values, etc. etc. etc. It is the oldest trope in the book. For example, here is George Wallace claiming that segregation wasn't about racism:

"A racist is one who despises someone because of his color, and an Alabama segregationist is one who conscientiously believes that it is in the best interest of Negro and white to have a separate education and social order." -George Wallace, 1964

[Josh]

Yet I’m not talking about race or racism at all. I am talking purely about class. And what I described specifically above is not about immigrants or about non-white people.

This isn’t “systemic racism”. I don’t want my kids to go to school with drug dealers. Is that a bad thing?

And of course most racists say exactly the same thing. They claim their attitudes aren't about race at all. Just innocent things like property values or crime or school quality, traffic, noise, cultural values, etc. etc. etc. It is the oldest trope in the book. For example, here is George Wallace claiming that segregation wasn't about racism:

"A racist is one who despises someone because of his color, and an Alabama segregationist is one who conscientiously believes that it is in the best interest of Negro and white to have a separate education and social order." -George Wallace, 1964

Can you stop talking about race?

The stuff I talked about invokes entirely people of one race who still don’t want to live together across class distinctions. Most upper class people are very eager to live around other upper class people of different races. But they don’t want to share their schools with drug dealers, chronically unemployed people, and so forth regardless of race.

[Haystack]

Ken, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on multicultural spaces in schools. Do you view them as a form of segregation?

[Neto]

I like collecting cars that "rich" people think are "junk", and I wish I could live around others who do as well. Too bad I don't. Instead, I live around people who mow their yards twice every time they cut the grass, just because they like that criss-cross pattern in their lawns. Personally, I think it looks tacky, and it's a waste of time, gasoline, and just makes more pollution (and lots of noise).

[Ken]

Ken, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on multicultural spaces in schools. Do you view them as a form of segregation?

Never actually heard of or seen them. Not in any school I’ve ever worked in. What are you talking about? There always a bazillion different clubs like Spanish Club, German Club, Christian athletes, DECA, HOSA, Muslim students, LGBT students, NHS, etc etc. but none of them exclude anyone so no. That isn’t segregation.

[Haystack]

Ken, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on multicultural spaces in schools. Do you view them as a form of segregation?

Never actually heard of or seen them. Not in any school I’ve ever worked in. What are you talking about? There always a bazillion different clubs like Spanish Club, German Club, Christian athletes, DECA, HOSA, Muslim students, LGBT students, NHS, etc etc. but none of them exclude anyone so no. That isn’t segregation.

There was a story a few months ago on national news about a incident that happened at ASU in their multicultural center. I'm not sure how many colleges have these areas, but they're "for historically minoritized and marginalized groups". It's not a club, just a designated area on campus.

[Ken]

Ken, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on multicultural spaces in schools. Do you view them as a form of segregation?

Never actually heard of or seen them. Not in any school I’ve ever worked in. What are you talking about? There always a bazillion different clubs like Spanish Club, German Club, Christian athletes, DECA, HOSA, Muslim students, LGBT students, NHS, etc etc. but none of them exclude anyone so no. That isn’t segregation.

There was a story a few months ago on national news about a incident that happened at ASU in their multicultural center. I'm not sure how many colleges have these areas, but they're "for historically minoritized and marginalized groups". It's not a club, just a designated area on campus.

I had to google up what you were talking about. https://www.abc15.com/news/region-south ... ural-space

• Apparently there is a multicultural center at ASU that is open to all students, similar to what exists at many other universities.
• A couple of conservative white students with pro-police stickers decided to park themselves in a prominent location as a provocation.
• They got into a conflict with some black students who objected to them or the message they were promoting.
• None of it reflected any sort of university policy which forbids exclusion from such public spaces. So it was the black students who were violating university policy.
• The Office of the Dean of Students had to intervene and interview all the students involved. To the extent that any were disciplined that has not been revealed but reportedly the black students in question are subject to university discipline for their actions.

Sounds like a giant tempest in a teapot and the same sort of nonsense and political posturing that has happened on college campuses since the dawn of time. When I was in college in the 1980s the political fights on campus were about divestment from South Africa, about wearing fur, about animal rights, about nuclear disarmament, about draft registration, and other issues that I've probably forgotten about. Some students did stupid and extreme stuff on behalf of their causes. Some got slaps on the wrist, others faced more severe consequences. I guess we are in the TikTok era. In the past this sort of thing would likely have not even made the campus newspaper.

As for your original question about multicultural spaces at schools? I looked up my daughter's university which reportedly has the largest multicultural center of any university in the country. http://depts.washington.edu/ecc/ It seems largely focused on NW Coast Salish Indian tribes and Asian-American cultural issues which makes sense given the location. The one at ASU is probably more Black and Hispanic-leaning. But they have over 160 different campus groups located there and no one is excluded in any way. http://depts.washington.edu/ecc/ecc-rso-list/ It's mostly about holding cultural events, career and job counseling, tutoring, etc. I fail to see the issue. That is what an actual multicultural center looks like. Feel free to explain how that represents Jim Crow segregation or is in your mind problematic.

[Haystack]

Never actually heard of or seen them. Not in any school I’ve ever worked in. What are you talking about? There always a bazillion different clubs like Spanish Club, German Club, Christian athletes, DECA, HOSA, Muslim students, LGBT students, NHS, etc etc. but none of them exclude anyone so no. That isn’t segregation.

There was a story a few months ago on national news about a incident that happened at ASU in their multicultural center. I'm not sure how many colleges have these areas, but they're "for historically minoritized and marginalized groups". It's not a club, just a designated area on campus.

I had to google up what you were talking about. https://www.abc15.com/news/region-south ... ural-space

• Apparently there is a multicultural center at ASU that is open to all students, similar to what exists at many other universities.
• A couple of conservative white students with pro-police stickers decided to park themselves in a prominent location as a provocation.
• They got into a conflict with some black students who objected to them or the message they were promoting.
• None of it reflected any sort of university policy which forbids exclusion from such public spaces. So it was the black students who were violating university policy.
• The Office of the Dean of Students had to intervene and interview all the students involved. To the extent that any were disciplined that has not been revealed but reportedly the black students in question are subject to university discipline for their actions.

Sounds like a giant tempest in a teapot and the same sort of nonsense and political posturing that has happened on college campuses since the dawn of time. When I was in college in the 1980s the political fights on campus were about divestment from South Africa, about wearing fur, about animal rights, about nuclear disarmament, about draft registration, and other issues that I've probably forgotten about. Some students did stupid and extreme stuff on behalf of their causes. Some got slaps on the wrist, others faced more severe consequences. I guess we are in the TikTok era. In the past this sort of thing would likely have not even made the campus newspaper.

As for your original question about multicultural spaces at schools? I looked up my daughter's university which reportedly has the largest multicultural center of any university in the country. http://depts.washington.edu/ecc/ It seems largely focused on NW Coast Salish Indian tribes and Asian-American cultural issues which makes sense given the location. The one at ASU is probably more Black and Hispanic-leaning. But they have over 160 different campus groups located there and no one is excluded in any way. http://depts.washington.edu/ecc/ecc-rso-list/ It's mostly about holding cultural events, career and job counseling, tutoring, etc. I fail to see the issue. That is what an actual multicultural center looks like. Feel free to explain how that represents Jim Crow segregation or is in your mind problematic.

If these areas are open to all then why was it a issue for these students being there? A sticker or shirt whether you agree with it or not shouldn't be reasons to be excluded from a public space. It doesn't matter if the school says it's open for everyone, if the students who organized the area are saying they can't be there then that sounds like the area wasn't created with the intent of inclusion for all. If someone showed up to a CM church with a everyone welcome sign wearing a planned parenthood shirt, would they be kicked out? Talk to them, share your opinion, listen to them, maybe find some common ground, and leave them with something to think about. Maybe they will see things from your prospective and change their ways, maybe not. There's ways to handle certain situations and if you watch the full video of what happened at ASU I think you might agree that it was handled very poorly.

[Ken]

If these areas are open to all then why was it a issue for these students being there? A sticker or shirt whether you agree with it or not shouldn't be reasons to be excluded from a public space. It doesn't matter if the school says it's open for everyone, if the students who organized the area are saying they can't be there then that sounds like the area wasn't created with the intent of inclusion for all. If someone showed up to a CM church with a everyone welcome sign wearing a planned parenthood shirt, would they be kicked out? Talk to them, share your opinion, listen to them, maybe find some common ground, and leave them with something to think about. Maybe they will see things from your prospective and change their ways, maybe not. There's ways to handle certain situations and if you watch the full video of what happened at ASU I think you might agree that it was handled very poorly.

I'm not sure what you expect me to say. The black students were wrong to respond to the provocation the way that they did. They were apparently disciplined. What more do you want? Students do stupid stuff every single day on every campus and in every school in the country. None of it reflects any sort of law or policy. Hopefully this was a learning experience for all involved.

I'm not sure what you think your "video evidence" actually represents. There are tens of thousands of videos of people behaving badly on YouTube and TikTok. The majority of them are of white people being racists or jerks. And most are adults not students. What does it all mean? That we have lots of intolerant people in our society I suspect. Which shouldn't be news to anyone.

[nett]

Ken, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on multicultural spaces in schools. Do you view them as a form of segregation?

Never actually heard of or seen them. Not in any school I’ve ever worked in. What are you talking about? There always a bazillion different clubs like Spanish Club, German Club, Christian athletes, DECA, HOSA, Muslim students, LGBT students, NHS, etc etc. but none of them exclude anyone so no. That isn’t segregation.

How about this?

https://www.blackenterprise.com/western ... t-housing/