A wife must stay quiet and submissive. Change my mind.

[Szdfan]

What if you don’t want a quiet and submissive wife?

Someone likes to be dominated

Not necessarily. Why does it have to be one or the other?

[PetrChelcicky]

My attempt to change your mind.
1. We all as Christians ought to be quiet and submissive (to each other). Some are better in this, others worse.
2. Insofar as it is unpalatable for ourselves, we can empathize with another one and grant him some leeway.
3. Men have a good role model with the "strong and silent" type - who quietly does whatever he deems right (perhaps with singing "do not forsake me o my darling")
4. Do women have a comparable role model? "Stand by your man" is not enough, because there is not always a man at hand to stand by.
5. At any way, women suffer from the gift to be more eloquent. As any other gift, it tends to become a poison. The strong man tends to become a bully, the smart man tends to become a con man. The eloquent woman tends to become a nag. Poor people, they can't overcome their gifts.

[Soloist]

Even if a man choses to step back from the authority he has been given and let the wife lead, he is still responsible for the sin the wife does.

She is as well, but this is a concept laid down at the garden. The Biblical answer is quite clear on this teaching... The husband cannot force a wife to obey and his focus should be on being a servant leader and loving her. There are many things we should do or not do, but an unloving husband does not give the wife permission to disobey nor does an unsubmissive wife give permission to not love.

[temporal1]

My attempt to change your mind.
1. We all as Christians ought to be quiet and submissive (to each other). Some are better in this, others worse.
2. Insofar as it is unpalatable for ourselves, we can empathize with another one and grant him some leeway.
3. Men have a good role model with the "strong and silent" type - who quietly does whatever he deems right (perhaps with singing "do not forsake me o my darling")
4. Do women have a comparable role model? "Stand by your man" is not enough, because there is not always a man at hand to stand by.

5. At any way, women suffer from the gift to be more eloquent.
As any other gift, it tends to become a poison.
The strong man tends to become a bully, the smart man tends to become a con man.
The eloquent woman tends to become a nag. Poor people, they can't overcome their gifts.

Even if a man [chooses] to step back from the authority he has been given and let the wife lead, he is still responsible for the sin the wife does.

She is as well, but this is a concept laid down at the garden.

The Biblical answer is quite clear on this teaching...
The husband cannot force a wife to obey and his focus should be on being a servant leader and loving her.
There are many things we should do or not do, but an unloving husband does not give the wife permission to disobey
nor does an unsubmissive wife give permission to not love.

.. speaking of eloquent ^^ ..

Why isn’t there an option where the wife has complete authority in the house, family, and marriage, and the husband’s main job is to bring home the bacon and otherwise be quiet and behave? And maybe had some limited authority over the garage, back yard, and BBQ grill?

Bruno Mars addresses this. “O.No!”

[mennonitemom1]

This place has been quite lately. Time for a poll and discussion.

I think a spirit-filled helper will probably know when it’s a good time to speak up… if just to “help”…..God did decide that the man needed her help….

[mennonitemom1]

This place has been quite lately. Time for a poll and discussion.

She surely shouldn’t just let him fall on his face and say that she let him do it his way….

[temporal1]

1 Peter 3:2
https://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-2.htm

1Wives, in the same way, submit yourselves to your husbands, so that even if they refuse to believe the word,
they will be won over without words by the behavior of their wives

2when they see your pure and reverent demeanor.

3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair or gold jewelry or fine clothes,…

This passage emphasizes the importance of “the word,” or conversion of hearts, as a purpose, an end result, of submission.

One interesting phenomena on MD was, occasional visits by new members in confusion and sadness, women hoping for guidance on how to address the not uncommon situation of husbands who had no interest faith or in attending church. This is a real heartache for lots of families.

The forum responses to these anxious worries were uncommonly in agreement! Memorable reading.

From memory, in summary, responses were to be patient, AND HAPPY WITHIN, to be faithful and joyful, to be kind, no matter what.
In other words, to reflect happiness in faith, happiness in church attendance, to be welcoming and open when+if the husband decided to join his wife/family.

One member suggested taking time to prepare a good breakfast for the husband before leaving. All of these things/actions translate into attractive and welcoming, not contentious, messages.

i enjoyed reading these topics, and i hoped they were helpful IRL. If i recall, some of these discussions lasted for several pages, the members asked with evident interest, then left without “bunny trailing” to other topics.

But isn’t this true, across the board, for winning hearts?
Debate isn’t needed when actions speak louder than words. Man, woman, child.

Scriptures reflect, for all matters, it’s not so much about “who’s doing what, how+when.” It’s about how all our many temporal paths should lead to believing the word. Wives submitting to their husbands, Christ submitting to His Father, it’s all for one inspired purpose.

i want to repeat, godly submission is not abuse.
there are people reading who have been abused in the name of godly submission. sin is not ok. confusion over this causes suffering. this is not a scriptural message. for husbands or wives.

[Chris]

Why isn’t there an option where the wife has complete authority in the house, family, and marriage, and the husband’s main job is to bring home the bacon and otherwise be quiet and behave? And maybe had some limited authority over the garage, back yard, and BBQ grill?

That is actually what many marriages look like these days and probably in the past as well.

And church leadership.

I'll show myself out.

[temporal1]

Bruno Mars addresses this. “O.No!”

i have been sad since posting the Bruno Mars video.
because Bruno M (not Jesus Christ) is known, loved, imitated, by many-many children, teens, young adults, their parents.
he and others unapologetically worse. he and others are accepted in gov schools, not banned. his music+lyrics could be practiced in music classes and in hallways. many have no idea what they’re missing. they know misery. they don’t know the way out.
that’s not much in the way of “choice” is it?

i pray for the Holy Spirit to touch hearts and lead to light.

Chris:
And church leadership.

I'll show myself out.

no need to rush.

[Ken]

Question. Is it WIVES who must stay quiet and submissive. Or is it WOMEN?

Discuss....