Coronavirus Outbreak

[Josh]

First while deaths among children are rare, they are not zero. About 700 children have died of Covid

More die of the flu, auto accidents and several other things. Should we vaccinate against all those things too?

Um…we do vaccinate against the flu. We also have air bags, seat belts and speed limits to try and mitigate the risk of auto fatalities.

How effective are flu vaccines?

[Ken]

How effective are flu vaccines?

Since you asked

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0X15002315

We estimated the numbers of deaths averted by vaccination in four age groups (0.5 to 4, 5 to 19, 20 to 64 and ≥65 yrs.) for the nine influenza seasons from 2005/6 through 2013/14. These estimates were obtained using a Monte Carlo approach applied to weekly U.S. age group-specific estimates of influenza-associated excess mortality, monthly vaccination coverage estimates and summary seasonal influenza vaccine effectiveness estimates to obtain estimates of the number of deaths averted by vaccination. The estimates are conservative as they do not include indirect vaccination effects.

Results: From August, 2005 through June, 2014, we estimated that 40,127 (95% confidence interval [CI] 25,694 to 59,210) deaths were averted by influenza vaccination. We found that of all studied seasons the most deaths were averted by influenza vaccination during the 2012/13 season (9398; 95% CI 2,386 to 19,897) and the fewest during the 2009/10 pandemic (222; 95% CI 79 to 347). Of all influenza-associated deaths averted, 88.9% (95% CI 83 to 92.5%) were in people ≥65 yrs. old.

Conclusions: The estimated number of deaths averted by the US annual influenza vaccination program is considerable, especially among elderly adults and even when vaccine effectiveness is modest, such as in the 2012/13 season. As indirect effects (“herd immunity”) of vaccination are ignored, these estimates represent lower bound estimates and are thus conservative given valid excess mortality estimates

[Robert]

Um…we do vaccinate against the flu. We also have air bags, seat belts and speed limits to try and mitigate the risk of auto fatalities.

Yes, but flu vaccines are not mandated. We still drive vehicles even with the safety features and those deaths are still happening. At some point, we have to accept the risk of life and move forward as best we can.

[Dan Z]

Um…we do vaccinate against the flu. We also have air bags, seat belts and speed limits to try and mitigate the risk of auto fatalities.

Yes, but flu vaccines are not mandated. We still drive vehicles even with the safety features and those deaths are still happening. At some point, we have to accept the risk of life and move forward as best we can.

I agree with this here Robert - and I really don't like mandates when it comes to personal health convictions.

Life ends one way or another - but good stewardship encourages us to preserve life - for the glory of God. What sober-minded folks do is encourage good and safe behavior in each other. We point to the lives saved by seatbelts and speed limits, and we encourage our friends to drive safely and buckle up because we love them. In the same way, I see how the flu and COVID have stolen so many beloved seniors from us prematurely, and so I encourage my octogenarian parents to get these potentially lifesaving innovations.

[Josh]

Um…we do vaccinate against the flu. We also have air bags, seat belts and speed limits to try and mitigate the risk of auto fatalities.

Yes, but flu vaccines are not mandated. We still drive vehicles even with the safety features and those deaths are still happening. At some point, we have to accept the risk of life and move forward as best we can.

I agree with this here Robert - and I really don't like mandates when it comes to personal health convictions.

Life ends one way or another - but good stewardship encourages us to preserve life - for the glory of God. What sober-minded folks do is encourage good and safe behavior in each other. We point to the lives saved by seatbelts and speed limits, and we encourage our friends to drive safely and buckle up because we love them. In the same way, I see how the flu and COVID have stolen so many beloved seniors from us prematurely, and so I encourage my octogenarian parents to get these potentially lifesaving innovations.

Slow down there, soldier. Do speed limits save lives? Does Germany have more traffic deaths than America?

[Robert]

I encourage my octogenarian parents to get these potentially lifesaving innovations.

I do also, but I do not generally encourage children to get flu or Covid shots since the risks are so small. There may be some who need it because of a complex health history, but we should not make a rule for the exceptions. We should have exceptions for the rule.

Our bodies need to learn how to handle virii and other infections. If those infections get out of hand, then we lean on medicine. Diet and healthy living should be our first defense, not a last resort. I know it is hard, but cutting back on carbs is very important for a multitude of reasons. Increase your vegetables and meat intake will do more for health than a Covid or flu shot.

[Robert]

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/landonmio ... w-n2598298

The Federal Bureau of Investigations has concluded that it has "moderate confidence" in the origin of the coronavirus being an accidental leak from a Chinese laboratory, making it the only agency with such a belief following a 90-day investigation into the virus' origins, according to an intelligence report.

"One [intelligence community] element assesses with moderate confidence that COVID-19 most likely resulted from a laboratory-associated incident involving WIV or other researchers—either through exposure to the virus during experiments or through sampling," the report noted.

https://www.odni.gov/files/ODNI/documen ... rigins.pdf

So it seems, once again, those who suggested I was following conspiracy theories are wrong. They have even found DNA for Bigfoot of late too. I am on a roll!!

[Ken]

Yes, but flu vaccines are not mandated. We still drive vehicles even with the safety features and those deaths are still happening. At some point, we have to accept the risk of life and move forward as best we can.

I agree with this here Robert - and I really don't like mandates when it comes to personal health convictions.

Life ends one way or another - but good stewardship encourages us to preserve life - for the glory of God. What sober-minded folks do is encourage good and safe behavior in each other. We point to the lives saved by seatbelts and speed limits, and we encourage our friends to drive safely and buckle up because we love them. In the same way, I see how the flu and COVID have stolen so many beloved seniors from us prematurely, and so I encourage my octogenarian parents to get these potentially lifesaving innovations.

Slow down there, soldier. Do speed limits save lives? Does Germany have more traffic deaths than America?

Germany has speed limits. Try driving 70 mph past a school or through the middle of any town in Germany and watch how fast you will get pulled over. Unlike in the US, red light cameras and speeding cameras are everywhere in Germany. Not only do you get mailed fines, if your speeds are more than 21 kph over the speed limit you get an automatic 1 month license suspension and multiple speeding tickets can get you a 1-year license suspension. Germany is far more serious about speeding and speed-limit enforcement than the US is.

I don't know how German highway deaths compare to the US but I suspect they are lower as the US is a more car-centric and less safety-oriented country.

[ohio jones]

I don't know how German highway deaths compare to the US but I suspect they are lower as the US is a more car-centric and less safety-oriented country.

42 of the worst 50 countries in terms of road deaths per year per 100k population are in Africa. Not surprisingly, CAR is one of the worst at 33.6. From my limited observation of African roads, I doubt speeding is the biggest problem.

For comparison, Germany is 3.7 and the US is 12.4.

We could save about 40,000 lives per year in the US by dropping the speed limit to zero (and enforcing it). But on the whole, society has decided to accept those deaths as a tradeoff for greater mobility.

We seemingly haven't yet arrived at a consensus on the level of covid restrictions vs. an acceptable number of deaths. That will eventually happen, whether by decision or by default.

[Ken]

I don't know how German highway deaths compare to the US but I suspect they are lower as the US is a more car-centric and less safety-oriented country.

42 of the worst 50 countries in terms of road deaths per year per 100k population are in Africa. Not surprisingly, CAR is one of the worst at 33.6. From my limited observation of African roads, I doubt speeding is the biggest problem.

For comparison, Germany is 3.7 and the US is 12.4.

We could save about 40,000 lives per year in the US by dropping the speed limit to zero (and enforcing it). But on the whole, society has decided to accept those deaths as a tradeoff for greater mobility.

We seemingly haven't yet arrived at a consensus on the level of covid restrictions vs. an acceptable number of deaths. That will eventually happen, whether by decision or by default.

Speed limits are just one of many factors that make US highways safe or unsafe. A lot of traffic deaths involve pedestrians in urban and suburban areas and are due to poor highway and road design, inadequate pedestrian infrastructure, lack of sidewalks, adequate cross walks, etc. Especially compared to countries like Germany. It isn't so much speed limits as car-centric urban and suburban design that prioritized high speed traffic flow above all other considerations.

We have chosen to build unsafe and unhealthy environments geared towards cars not people. It was a choice. Everything involves choices and tradeoffs, whether it is public health or road safety.