Haiti Kidnapping

[Ken]

This is where my mind has been with this.

I've been seeing FB posts expressing a deep sense of pain over how some conservative Mennonite churches are responding to this crisis vs. their response to Mast. There are certain kinds of crisises and tragedies that are easier to respond to than others. The disaprity between how some churches responded to the Mast crisis vs. how they are responding to this crisis is triggering for some.

I wasn't gonna bring this up and I'm not even sure its wise to go down this rabbit hole... CAM was quick to find money to silence Mast's victims but somehow they won't pay a ransom here? I'm making this statement in a bit of ignorance as I am not involved beyond distantly knowing a few of the victims here.

I have faith its more complicated than that. I hope so, anyway

The question is whether CAM shares any culpability for this situation. Were these missionaries touring Haiti with the blessing and support of CAM? Or were they there in defiance of recommendations/advice from CAM vis-a-vis the security situation in Haiti? Not that CAM is in any way culpable for the actual kidnappings, obviously not. But were they culpable in allowing families to put themselves in danger? I don't known how CAM works relative to other organizations. But that is one question I would be asking. If they were there at the direction of and sponsorship of CAM that is one thing. If they were there against the advice and recommendations of CAM that is a different thing.

[Neto]

This is where my mind has been with this.

I've been seeing FB posts expressing a deep sense of pain over how some conservative Mennonite churches are responding to this crisis vs. their response to Mast. There are certain kinds of crisises and tragedies that are easier to respond to than others. The disaprity between how some churches responded to the Mast crisis vs. how they are responding to this crisis is triggering for some.

I wasn't gonna bring this up and I'm not even sure its wise to go down this rabbit hole... CAM was quick to find money to silence Mast's victims but somehow they won't pay a ransom here? I'm making this statement in a bit of ignorance as I am not involved beyond distantly knowing a few of the victims here.

I have faith its more complicated than that. I hope so, anyway

I've had my disagreements with some of CAM's operating policies, but by saying "to silence [the] victims" it sounds like you are attributing a certain motivation to their actions, motivations which MAY not have been in their minds. I do not know one way or the other. But I would say that for an organization to pay a ransom endangers the rest of their members, in any country where their response is heard. (I am NOT speaking at all to a private person or other agency paying a ransom, only one officially coming from the organization itself. Although I suspect that that case does also endanger other workers, although not to the same extent.)

[Dan Z]

Ken - from my five years as a mission administrator in Haiti - and having no privileged information on the CAM situation - I would be surprised if the mission team was going against CAM leadership directives when they visited the orphanage.

Most of the conservative Mennonite missionaries (short- and long-term) in Haiti are team players..."good soldiers" if you will...fully ready and willing to follow mission directives, yet also fully ready to take on reasonable risk to do the work of the Kingdom. Haiti, like many mission settings in the developing world, is a dangerous place in the best of times...and these certainly are not the best of times. There are very few of us who have spent significant time in Haiti who have not experienced personal violence and danger, at some level, in the normal course of doing what we believe is the work of Jesus. Some have even died. But missionaries are there to serve "the least of these," who daily face even greater risks, and the risk vs ministry calculation is made all the time. While safety must be considered, the work of the Gospel must go forward.

I strongly suspect the trip to the orphanage was thought through from a risk/ministry benefit perspective (at the administration level, discussions about risk versus ministry are a daily occurrence in times like this), and the decision to go was likely made while taking steps to minimize risk. The choice to go during the daylight, in a large group, to a known destination, with a Haitian driver, were all risk-management choices (remember - an abduction of this size involving American Missionaries has never occurred before), as was, I assume, the route chosen that day. The orphanage was about 20-miles away from the CAM compound as the crow flies (25 miles by road), a good part of that journey, especially at the beginning and end, on rural open road. I suspect the driver took what he felt was the safest route possible in light of gang activity. I've never known CAM country leadership in Haiti to be reckless, and I don't suspect they were this time either

[Ken]

Ken - from my five years as a mission administrator in Haiti - and having no privileged information on the CAM situation - I would be surprised if the mission team was going against CAM leadership directives when they visited the orphanage.

Most of the conservative Mennonite missionaries in Haiti are team players..."good soldiers" if you will...fully ready and willing to follow mission directives, yet also fully ready to take on reasonable risk to do the work of the Kingdom. Haiti, like many mission settings in the developing world, is a dangerous place in the best of times...and these certainly are not the best of times. There are very few of us who have spent significant time in Haiti who have not experienced personal violence and danger, at some level, in the normal course of doing what we believe is the work of Jesus. Some have even died. But missionaries are there to serve "the least of these," who daily face even greater risks, and the risk vs ministry calculation is made all the time. While safety must be considered, the work of the Gospel must go forward.

I strongly suspect the trip to the orphanage was thought through from a risk/ministry benefit perspective (at the administration level, discussions about risk versus ministry are a daily occurrence in times like this), and the decision to go was likely made while taking steps to minimize risk. The choice to go during the daylight, in a large group, to a known destination, with a Haitian driver, were all risk-management choices (remember - an abduction of this size involving American Missionaries has never occurred before), as was, I assume, the route chosen that day. The orphanage was about 20-miles away from the CAM compound as the crow flies (25 miles by road), a good part of that journey, especially at the beginning and end, on rural open road. I suspect the driver took what he felt was the safest route possible in light of gang activity. I've never known CAM country leadership in Haiti to be reckless, and I don't suspect they were this time either

Like I said, I have no first-hand knowledge of any of this. I was just pointing out that the extent to which CAM might be considered in any way culpable here depends in part on whether this particular visit was something organized and directed by CAM or if the folks involved were just off doing their own thing. Some overseas organizations have a lot of “freelancing” so to speak and do little more than arrange logistics like airfare and visas. Others are much more tightly controlled and directed.

I expect this will cause them to re-examine a lot of their security procedures and risk-taking world-wide. Especially where families are involved.

[Bill Rushby]

I read on "Yahoo News" that the radical group which kidnapped the missionaries from CAM that they will be killed if the ranson of one million per person is not paid. What do you know about the missionaries' status?

[mike]

I read on "Yahoo News" that the radical group which kidnapped the missionaries from CAM that they will be killed if the ranson of one million per person is not paid. What do you know about the missionaries' status?

I haven't heard any news about their status. CAM asked its staff to pray and fast for the hostages today, and invited anyone else to participate as well.

[Ken]

I read on "Yahoo News" that the radical group which kidnapped the missionaries from CAM that they will be killed if the ranson of one million per person is not paid. What do you know about the missionaries' status?

I haven't heard any news about their status. CAM asked its staff to pray and fast for the hostages today, and invited anyone else to participate as well.

I’m not sure they are radical in a political sense. They are a criminal gang that is responsible for over 100 kidnappings in the past several months, all of them for money rather than ideological reasons. Unlike say the FARC rebels in Colombia or Shining Path in Peru who did kidnap ideological enemies for political reasons.

I expect it will come down to money and ransoms will end up getting paid. I expect the only questions are how much money and how long it will all take.

[mike]

CAM staff member on ABC News today.

[Josh]

I read on "Yahoo News" that the radical group which kidnapped the missionaries from CAM that they will be killed if the ranson of one million per person is not paid. What do you know about the missionaries' status?

I haven't heard any news about their status. CAM asked its staff to pray and fast for the hostages today, and invited anyone else to participate as well.

I’m not sure they are radical in a political sense. They are a criminal gang that is responsible for over 100 kidnappings in the past several months, all of them for money rather than ideological reasons. Unlike say the FARC rebels in Colombia or Shining Path in Peru who did kidnap ideological enemies for political reasons.

I expect it will come down to money and ransoms will end up getting paid. I expect the only questions are how much money and how long it will all take.

To give some context, ordinary Haitians get kidnapped and ransomed for amounts of hundreds of dollars, prominent businessmen thousands of dollars, and Haiti just had its own President assassinated a few months ago. This is a problem Haiti has been dealing with for the last two years.

The orphanage in question sent all its Western workers from its own denomination home two years ago. Why these other people felt they needed to visit is a very good question.

[Soloist]

From the wife:

I find it disappointing that this thread has devolved into a bash CAM/conservative Mennonites thread. Whether or not you like CAM or whether you think people made mistakes in going into this situation, now, especially in this thread, doesn't seem like an appropriate time/place to discuss this. There may be close family/friends of the captives who are reading this, and it seems like this thread is being treated with the same casualness as a discussion on Covid, politics, or any other fun source of debate.

As for the difference in response between Mast and now, the whole Mast situation was messed up. Many conservative Mennonites/other Anabaptists around here were horrified/disgusted by that as well, but one difference in the two situations is that by the time most of us found out about that, Mast was in custody and it was not an ongoing situation where people had no idea how it would turn out or when it would end. The only uncertainty was how much time he would get, and it seems like most people thought he deserved to spend time in prison and weren't losing sleep over it. In the current case, 17 men, women, and children are currently facing abuse and possible death, and no one knows how long this will drag out. Having lost a close family member to tragedy, I have felt relief that that situation at least didn't drag on with the dread and uncertainty that this seems to.

I don't think we should ignore the horrible crimes done to those Haitian boys, and that whole thing was a horrible blight on our testimony, but I don't think that it's fair to say people are doing that just because they are absorbed in this current situation, especially as many may personally be close friends/relatives of the current captives. At least in the churches I attend, people are also actively praying for the Haitians that have to face kidnapping/violence every day, and I for one am hoping that maybe this can somehow help the rest of Haiti as well and maybe even reduce the kidnappings in their country. If some people weren't thinking enough about the Haitians before, maybe this has helped to make their grief more relatable.

I'm not saying you have to agree with or financially support Christian Aid Ministries, and maybe another thread might be useful to say why you like/dislike them, but it really feels like kicking people when they are down to go on and on about how CAM and the missionaries brought this on themselves.

Hebrews 13:3
Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.