Discipline measures your church uses? (And public confessions?)

[steve-in-kville]

One thing I noticed when I was young and immature, I was all about wanting to see every minute sin or offense confessed to, know all the gory details and background to the situation, and sadly, gossiped about it.

Now, after experiencing my own struggles with this thing called life, I have much, much more sympathy toward people who failed and/or struggle. And many times wonder what was going on in their minds at the time.

[Neto]

I suppose a related question would take this a bit off-topic - the whole emphasis on "accountability partners". A few months ago someone made the statement in our congregation that "You cannot beat the sin of ____ without an accountability partner with whom you meet regularly." I cringe, because every Christian has the Holy Spirit within their life, and Jesus is also here with each of us. Am I more concerned about what a fellow Christian thinks than I am of what Jesus thinks? Is He not the ultimate "accountability partner"? I am all for brotherhood, and mutual prayer and sharing, but I do not thing that when Paul said "Urge one another on to good works" he was talking about interrogation. I think a lot of the "Accountability Partner" deal concentrates too much on the negative, focusing on the sin to be avoided, instead of encouraging the good works of righteousness to be done. (There, I said it.)

I'm stepping on the toes of something I just posted in this thread, but I think "accountability partners" are valid, nay, necessary, in some situations. Neto, I am not sure your demographic background, but there is a significant generational difference in the susceptibility to some dangerous facets of technology. This comes from worldly research, so it's not just bible-thumping-porn-sends-you-to-hell people spouting the information (not that the latter is wrong...)

To use pornography as an example, it was a lot easier for one generation to avoid smut because they simply didn't get the print articles with pornographic images in them. Or if they did, it's not like there was an unlimited amount of women pictured. Meanwhile, in today's day of the internet, users are faced with millions of images that are simply a click away. It makes a huge difference, turning a compulsive behavior that would self-regulate in the 1970's into an addictive behavior that is crippling in the 2020's. There has even been evidence that older generations simply don't get as addicted to pornography compared to younger generations because of this difference.

I'm not excusing the sin either way, and I think the "easy" solution is to cut off the hand that offends you-- but try to tell someone that they need to get rid of the internet and not have a smart phone. Many of them will have a litany of excuses why they simply cannot-- work, school, etc. In that situation, you need an accountability partner. An internet filter is not enough, because an addict will always find a way. It is the nature of the disease.

This obviously is not a water-tight or all-encompassing argument, I tried to piece this together while feeding my toddler, so excuse me if some pieces & parts don't add up right....

If by demographics you mean age, I am 65, will be 66 this year yet. Now in regards to pornography, there are different types, and the distinctions are probably rather blurry. The first time I ever saw anything that wasn't considered "art" (like pictures of stone sculptures from centuries back, which I would say is also a form of pornography), was in 7th grade. We were doing the achievement tests, and we were allowed to leave the school grounds between tests. There was a small convenience store nearby, and some of us walked over there. Someone had opened a PlayBoy magazine and left it on the shelf like that. I think that magazine might now be considered "soft porn", I don't know, but I know the stuff on the internet is "worse". But there was something else that I would also call "soft porn" that could probably have been found in even most Christian homes - the Sears & Roebuck or Penny's catalogs. It isn't total nudity, but it is women in very little clothing posed in seductive ways. It is bad enough for the imagination to fill in the rest, and it is mainly the imagination at play in the sin of lust.

[Grace]

Sounds over the top to me, too.

What I was referring to as a seemingly insincere confession is one where excuses are made. Like what I mentioned - "Every man fails in this same way." Or another I heard about (that I cannot say more about because it is too much information) where other excuses were made for infidelity. I'm not saying that the change in him is not real - I rather suspect that it is, but I don't think he was ready to make confession when he did. I sincerely hope, for the sake of all involved, that he has since fully owned his responsibility in the sin.

I am not without sin. I have not publicly confessed ever one of my sins. But I'm also not sure that is beneficial, perhaps especially for those who would be forced to hear it. I think my position on this might be affected by another thing I feel strongly about - that "asking forgiveness" is generally not for the benefit of the offended one, but for the benefit of the offender. What I mean is that we want to be forgiven, so that we can feel better about ourselves. I think it is self-centered, and would point out that the Scripture does not tell us to "ask forgiveness", it tells us to confess. (It does of course also tell us how we should respond when someone confesses to us or asks forgiveness, but that is from the other angle.)

Good points. Years ago we were in a church where a confession was made from a young woman for the sin of fornication with her boyfriend. After the confession was read the whole congregation was asked to stand as a sign of forgiveness towards the young woman. I was a bit confused, as this young woman did not personally commit the sin against me or anyone else in the congregation.The whole thing turned into a big spectacle.

[steve-in-kville]

Good points. Years ago we were in a church where a confession was made from a young woman for the sin of fornication with her boyfriend. After the confession was read the whole congregation was asked to stand as a sign of forgiveness towards the young woman. I was a bit confused, as this young woman did not personally commit the sin against me or anyone else in the congregation.The whole thing turned into a big spectacle.

Stuff like that is just fuel for all the busy bodies/troublemakers in a church. Of course they'll approach family and wonder who the boy was, is she pregnant, why did the parents let them out too late, and such like.

[Sudsy]

I think this is a good process to consider - https://www.gracechurch.org/about/disti ... discipline

[steve-in-kville]

To get us back on track, I've heard of people being held back from communion/lovefeast. I know of an older married couple having their membership revoked... she was into some borderline witchcraft alternative medicine stuff. He liked calling 900 numbers (does that even exist anymore?) and wasn't afraid to tell everyone about it (more on that later...).

I knew of some ex-amish that were in the ban and worked alongside other amish and it was awkward for both.

[Laurell]

To get us back on track, I've heard of people being held back from communion/lovefeast. I know of an older married couple having their membership revoked... she was into some borderline witchcraft alternative medicine stuff. He liked calling 900 numbers (does that even exist anymore?) and wasn't afraid to tell everyone about it (more on that later...).

I knew of some ex-amish that were in the ban and worked alongside other amish and it was awkward for both.

I did not grow up anabaptist, but my father went under church discipline and was withheld from communion for a period of months (we had communion every month). At the time as a child, it made sense to me because we get punished for doing bad things, right? Reflecting back as an adult, it is a bit odd to me-- if someone is supposedly walking in forgiveness and grace, why are they "being punished"? I don't understand what this did beyond publicly shame my father for his sins.

On the other hand, as an adult: we recently had our communion, and a member of our church in poor standing showed up. He is not attending church and is openly walking in what I would consider death sins, but he has not been formally reprimanded or anything of the like (that is a different thread entirely....) But I told my husband that if so-and-so participates in communion, I don't feel like I can, because I am not at peace with my brothers & sisters in the congregation at that moment, if he were to take it. (To be clear, he hasn't been to church in literally years, but then just showed up to a communion meeting).

I think the idea of asking someone to abstain from communion with their brethren until there is reconciliation does make some sense from a community stand point.

[Ernie]

I absolutely agree with you; I often wonder if I am doing more harm than good when I force my older kids to apologize to one another after some sort of squabble.

FWIW, We ask our children to acknowledge that they did the wrong thing, but we do not ask them to apologize.

[Joy]

And to confess it by name to the Lord on the spot? We had our students do that when they had to be disciplined. But in private, of course, just a staff member with a witness to the discipline.

[ken_sylvania]

To get us back on track, I've heard of people being held back from communion/lovefeast. I know of an older married couple having their membership revoked... she was into some borderline witchcraft alternative medicine stuff. He liked calling 900 numbers (does that even exist anymore?) and wasn't afraid to tell everyone about it (more on that later...).

I knew of some ex-amish that were in the ban and worked alongside other amish and it was awkward for both.

I did not grow up anabaptist, but my father went under church discipline and was withheld from communion for a period of months (we had communion every month). At the time as a child, it made sense to me because we get punished for doing bad things, right? Reflecting back as an adult, it is a bit odd to me-- if someone is supposedly walking in forgiveness and grace, why are they "being punished"? I don't understand what this did beyond publicly shame my father for his sins.

On the other hand, as an adult: we recently had our communion, and a member of our church in poor standing showed up. He is not attending church and is openly walking in what I would consider death sins, but he has not been formally reprimanded or anything of the like (that is a different thread entirely....) But I told my husband that if so-and-so participates in communion, I don't feel like I can, because I am not at peace with my brothers & sisters in the congregation at that moment, if he were to take it. (To be clear, he hasn't been to church in literally years, but then just showed up to a communion meeting).

I think the idea of asking someone to abstain from communion with their brethren until there is reconciliation does make some sense from a community stand point.

In our church we typically have a waiting time for applicants for membership before they are taken in or baptized as the case may be. They would not generally take communion during that time. I think that being held back from communion for a time would be viewed as a similar proving period. In our view, one of the most important indications of repentance is whether there is a changed life.