To beard or not to beard

[Neto]

Ok, I am going to word this carefully. I mean no snark.

How can we say we believe that Salvation is not of works but through Jesus and then say (anything) is a "salvation" issue? Plug in anything you want, like the beard or obedience to (this or that church),

I think that "salvation by works" assumes that whatever "work" the person has in mind is enough to gain, or keep, salvation. Obedience is, in my understanding, the Biblical working definition of 'belief'. But I also think that faith, or belief, does not save a person. Only God, in his grace, can save. As I understand salvation, God sees our little bit of (insufficient) faith and marks it down in the "Salvation Ledger" as righteousness. Not that it is enough; it isn't. But he "reckons" it as though it is. Even obedience is not enough to save us. But God sees it, and in his great loving mercy grants salvation, which is membership in his family.

[steve-in-kville]

Ok, I am going to word this carefully. I mean no snark.

How can we say we believe that Salvation is not of works but through Jesus and then say (anything) is a "salvation" issue? Plug in anything you want, like the beard or obedience to (this or that church),

Very good point. For the sake of discussion (and maybe this needs to a thread of its own?) would the woman's headcovering be a salvation issue? Think about that a little. Is every woman that doesn't wear a covering unsaved?

[ABC 123]

Ok, I am going to word this carefully. I mean no snark.

How can we say we believe that Salvation is not of works but through Jesus and then say (anything) is a "salvation" issue? Plug in anything you want, like the beard or obedience to (this or that church),

Very good point. For the sake of discussion (and maybe this needs to a thread of its own?) would the woman's headcovering be a salvation issue? Think about that a little. Is every woman that doesn't wear a covering unsaved?

The head covering often seems like the litmus test of litmus tests. For something that was mentioned once in a handful of verses, a lot seems to ride on that.

[steve-in-kville]

The head covering often seems like the litmus test of litmus tests. For something that was mentioned once in a handful of verses, a lot seems to ride on that.

I would agree.

[ABC 123]

The head covering often seems like the litmus test of litmus tests. For something that was mentioned once in a handful of verses, a lot seems to ride on that.

I would agree.

It would not seem culturally unacceptable to some to argue the necessity of the head covering over a very large bowl of ice cream.

[steve-in-kville]

Its been a while since we had a good, feisty head covering thread

[ABC 123]

Its been a while since we had a good, feisty head covering thread

I really don't care to engage in a conversation about that in particular.

I did not grow up Christian and certainly not Mennonite. I do not think i ever properly wrestled out what looks like works based salvation vs reading in the Bible that our works are filthy rags.

[Heirbyadoption]

Its been a while since we had a good, feisty head covering thread

I really don't care to engage in a conversation about that in particular.

But what if it really is that important, and you've just never taken the time to thoroughly explore the subject?

And Steve, I was sure you would have created a poll by now...

[steve-in-kville]

Its been a while since we had a good, feisty head covering thread

I really don't care to engage in a conversation about that in particular.

But what if it really is that important, and you've just never taken the time to thoroughly explore the subject?

And Steve, I was sure you would have created a poll by now...

Honestly, I limit myself to one poll/day (5 days/week) as to not "hog" the forum with polls. After while some really good threads get buried that a new-comer may wish to participate in.

I'll put that topic on my list, though.

[Ken]

The "Clark Gable mustache" was a very popular among military guys in WWII.

You can google search images of WW2 soldiers and see that very very few had mustaches: https://www.google.com/search?as_st=y&t ... &tbs=isz:l

They weren't particularly common in WW1 either: https://www.google.com/search?as_st=y&t ... &tbs=isz:l

You have to go back to about the Spanish American War in 1898 or even the Civil War to start finding lots of mustaches on soldiers and even then it was hardly universal: https://www.google.com/search?as_st=y&t ... &tbs=isz:l

I didn't use an internet search engine to come up with what I said - it is based on a first-hand recollection from someone I know who served in the occupation force in Germany after the war ended. Maybe that doesn't qualify as being "WWII", but it was actually later. I would imagine that what you are referring to would be the huge drooping mustaches - the "Clark Gable mustache" is no more than a thin line. Unless a photo is a close up, it may not even be perceptible.

Sure, some people wore mustaches. But by far most troops were clean shaven by WW1 and still are. Those today who are not tend to be special forces types who wear full beards. The point I am making is that the conservative Anabaptist prohibition on mustaches because they are "military" or a "soldier's fashion" is really a reaction to the 19th Century when mustaches actually were military fashion and some forces like the British actually mandated them. But that notion is really 150 years out of date. In other words, they are reacting to Civil War and Franco-Prussian war fashions, not anything in the living memory of even our grandparents.