Ivermectin

[Josh]

Exactly what “safety data” is needed? Billions of people are taking ivermectin - it’s very safe.

Off label used are very common (about 10% or 20% of prescriptions are off label uses). And anecdotally, ivermectin has led someone I know to a rapid and full recovery.

If there’s a chance keeps people out of hospitals and ICUs, isn’t that a good thing?

[GaryK]

If my doctor prescribes Ivermectin for me if I get Covid, I will trust his/her judgment in the matter just like I do for any other illness.

[Ken]

Exactly what “safety data” is needed? Billions of people are taking ivermectin - it’s very safe.

Off label used are very common (about 10% or 20% of prescriptions are off label uses). And anecdotally, ivermectin has led someone I know to a rapid and full recovery.

If there’s a chance keeps people out of hospitals and ICUs, isn’t that a good thing?

Just off the top of my head, some of the type of safety and clinical that might be needed when Ivermectin is used for Covid instead of treating worms?

1. Does Ivermectin react or interact with any of the other medications that are simultaneously being given to Covid patients. I doubt, for example, that very many people taking Ivermectin in the past were on monoclonal antibodies or taking Remdesivir or Hydrochloroqine or other Covid treatments. So we need to know if Ivermectin reacts in any way with those other therapies.

2. Are there side effects to Ivermectin that might be unnoticeable in a healthy individual taking it for worms, that might present themselves in a Covid patient with compromised lung capacity and low oxygen levels?

3. Are there side effects from taking Ivermectin at the higher levels and longer frequencies recommended for Covid that are different than the lower single dose treatment generally given for worms?

4. What is the optimal treatment regimen when using Ivermectin for Covid? When should it be given? How frequently and at what dosages? What conditions might be counter-indicated for taking Ivermectin? What side effects should doctors be watching for?

I don’t think billions of examples of people taking Ivermectin for scabies or round worms necessarily answers any of those questions.

[GaryK]

Exactly what “safety data” is needed? Billions of people are taking ivermectin - it’s very safe.

Off label used are very common (about 10% or 20% of prescriptions are off label uses). And anecdotally, ivermectin has led someone I know to a rapid and full recovery.

If there’s a chance keeps people out of hospitals and ICUs, isn’t that a good thing?

Just off the top of my head, some of the type of safety and clinical that might be needed when Ivermectin is used for Covid instead of treating worms?

1. Does Ivermectin react or interact with any of the other medications that are simultaneously being given to Covid patients. I doubt, for example, that very many people taking Ivermectin in the past were on monoclonal antibodies or taking Remdesivir or Hydrochloroqine or other Covid treatments. So we need to know if Ivermectin reacts in any way with those other therapies.

2. Are there side effects to Ivermectin that might be unnoticeable in a healthy individual taking it for worms, that might present themselves in a Covid patient with compromised lung capacity and low oxygen levels?

3. Are there side effects from taking Ivermectin at the higher levels and longer frequencies recommended for Covid that are different than the lower single dose treatment generally given for worms?

4. What is the optimal treatment regimen when using Ivermectin for Covid? When should it be given? How frequently and at what dosages? What conditions might be counter-indicated for taking Ivermectin? What side effects should doctors be watching for?

I don’t think billions of examples of people taking Ivermectin for scabies or round worms necessarily answers any of those questions.

Wouldn't most doctors who prescribe Ivermectin take all these things into account before prescribing it? Whatever happened with trusting one's doctor to have your best interest in mind?

[Josh]

Exactly what “safety data” is needed? Billions of people are taking ivermectin - it’s very safe.

Off label used are very common (about 10% or 20% of prescriptions are off label uses). And anecdotally, ivermectin has led someone I know to a rapid and full recovery.

If there’s a chance keeps people out of hospitals and ICUs, isn’t that a good thing?

Just off the top of my head, some of the type of safety and clinical that might be needed when Ivermectin is used for Covid instead of treating worms?

1. Does Ivermectin react or interact with any of the other medications that are simultaneously being given to Covid patients. I doubt, for example, that very many people taking Ivermectin in the past were on monoclonal antibodies or taking Remdesivir or Hydrochloroqine or other Covid treatments. So we need to know if Ivermectin reacts in any way with those other therapies.

Drug interactions with ivermectin are already well known, just like other prescription drugs. It doesn’t have any significant interactions other than with alcohol.

There is no standard medication regimen for covid. The standard regimen is to stay home and do nothing.

2. Are there side effects to Ivermectin that might be unnoticeable in a healthy individual taking it for worms, that might present themselves in a Covid patient with compromised lung capacity and low oxygen levels?

No. Billions of people take ivermectin. Some of those billions have lung problems.

3. Are there side effects from taking Ivermectin at the higher levels and longer frequencies recommended for Covid that are different than the lower single dose treatment generally given for worms?

Possibly, but typical ivermectin use is a regimen once a year or for a few days - exactly the same as the FLCCC’s recommendation. The dosing is the same too. (Some doctors recommend a 20% or so higher dose.)

Ivermectin’s toxic dose is really high - it’s like diphenhydramine, you can take a huge amount of it safely (although there is no reason to!)

4. What is the optimal treatment regimen when using Ivermectin for Covid? When should it be given? How frequently and at what dosages? What conditions might be counter-indicated for taking Ivermectin? What side effects should doctors be watching for?

I would consult the FLCCC regimen (FLCCC is a group of physician-scientists).

I don’t think billions of examples of people taking Ivermectin for scabies or round worms necessarily answers any of those questions.

Actually, they do. The billions of people around the world have, presumably, been exposed to Covid. Particularly in India where both covid ran rampant and ivermectin use is quite high.

Basically, Ken, off label use is really common. It’s 10 or 20% of Rx use. This is no different.

[Bootstrap]

Basically, Ken, off label use is really common. It’s 10 or 20% of Rx use. This is no different.

It's different.

The manufacturer says "don't do this". So do all the major medical associations.

And it's especially problematic if they take something that doesn't work instead of something that does. Lots of people are dying of Covid-19 or being hospitalized for it, the number of people taking ivermectin who need medical help is probably much fewer.

Giving people advice that might land them in the hospital or kill them? Probably not a good idea.

[Ken]

Exactly what “safety data” is needed? Billions of people are taking ivermectin - it’s very safe.

Off label used are very common (about 10% or 20% of prescriptions are off label uses). And anecdotally, ivermectin has led someone I know to a rapid and full recovery.

If there’s a chance keeps people out of hospitals and ICUs, isn’t that a good thing?

Just off the top of my head, some of the type of safety and clinical that might be needed when Ivermectin is used for Covid instead of treating worms?

1. Does Ivermectin react or interact with any of the other medications that are simultaneously being given to Covid patients. I doubt, for example, that very many people taking Ivermectin in the past were on monoclonal antibodies or taking Remdesivir or Hydrochloroqine or other Covid treatments. So we need to know if Ivermectin reacts in any way with those other therapies.

2. Are there side effects to Ivermectin that might be unnoticeable in a healthy individual taking it for worms, that might present themselves in a Covid patient with compromised lung capacity and low oxygen levels?

3. Are there side effects from taking Ivermectin at the higher levels and longer frequencies recommended for Covid that are different than the lower single dose treatment generally given for worms?

4. What is the optimal treatment regimen when using Ivermectin for Covid? When should it be given? How frequently and at what dosages? What conditions might be counter-indicated for taking Ivermectin? What side effects should doctors be watching for?

I don’t think billions of examples of people taking Ivermectin for scabies or round worms necessarily answers any of those questions.

Wouldn't most doctors who prescribe Ivermectin take all these things into account before prescribing it? Whatever happened with trusting one's doctor to have your best interest in mind?

Actually MOST doctors DON'T prescribe Ivermectin for Covid for these exact reasons. And because it isn't recommended by either the manufacturer or the FDA for that use. They feel that they don't have enough information to prescribe it safely and effectively and they feel that there isn't enough reliable clinical evidence to support it's use for Covid.

[Ken]

Exactly what “safety data” is needed? Billions of people are taking ivermectin - it’s very safe.

Off label used are very common (about 10% or 20% of prescriptions are off label uses). And anecdotally, ivermectin has led someone I know to a rapid and full recovery.

If there’s a chance keeps people out of hospitals and ICUs, isn’t that a good thing?

Just off the top of my head, some of the type of safety and clinical that might be needed when Ivermectin is used for Covid instead of treating worms?

1. Does Ivermectin react or interact with any of the other medications that are simultaneously being given to Covid patients. I doubt, for example, that very many people taking Ivermectin in the past were on monoclonal antibodies or taking Remdesivir or Hydrochloroqine or other Covid treatments. So we need to know if Ivermectin reacts in any way with those other therapies.

Drug interactions with ivermectin are already well known, just like other prescription drugs. It doesn’t have any significant interactions other than with alcohol.

There is no standard medication regimen for covid. The standard regimen is to stay home and do nothing.

2. Are there side effects to Ivermectin that might be unnoticeable in a healthy individual taking it for worms, that might present themselves in a Covid patient with compromised lung capacity and low oxygen levels?

No. Billions of people take ivermectin. Some of those billions have lung problems.

3. Are there side effects from taking Ivermectin at the higher levels and longer frequencies recommended for Covid that are different than the lower single dose treatment generally given for worms?

Possibly, but typical ivermectin use is a regimen once a year or for a few days - exactly the same as the FLCCC’s recommendation. The dosing is the same too. (Some doctors recommend a 20% or so higher dose.)

Ivermectin’s toxic dose is really high - it’s like diphenhydramine, you can take a huge amount of it safely (although there is no reason to!)

4. What is the optimal treatment regimen when using Ivermectin for Covid? When should it be given? How frequently and at what dosages? What conditions might be counter-indicated for taking Ivermectin? What side effects should doctors be watching for?

I would consult the FLCCC regimen (FLCCC is a group of physician-scientists).

I don’t think billions of examples of people taking Ivermectin for scabies or round worms necessarily answers any of those questions.

Actually, they do. The billions of people around the world have, presumably, been exposed to Covid. Particularly in India where both covid ran rampant and ivermectin use is quite high.

Basically, Ken, off label use is really common. It’s 10 or 20% of Rx use. This is no different.

It is all well and good for you to hand-wave away every potential issue Josh. But most doctors aren't going to do that. They aren't, for example, going to say that "Ivermectin is commonly used in India and we haven't heard of any side-effects there with lung patients so we are good to go". They are going to want to see clinical trials and most likely recommendations from medical agencies like the FDA or their counterparts in other developed countries.

And the FLCCC? Isn't that the group with the doctor from Houston who thought diseases were caused by demon possession and space aliens, and who's founder was arrested for storming the capitol during the January 6th insurrection? Yes, they sound credible.

[GaryK]

Just off the top of my head, some of the type of safety and clinical that might be needed when Ivermectin is used for Covid instead of treating worms?

1. Does Ivermectin react or interact with any of the other medications that are simultaneously being given to Covid patients. I doubt, for example, that very many people taking Ivermectin in the past were on monoclonal antibodies or taking Remdesivir or Hydrochloroqine or other Covid treatments. So we need to know if Ivermectin reacts in any way with those other therapies.

2. Are there side effects to Ivermectin that might be unnoticeable in a healthy individual taking it for worms, that might present themselves in a Covid patient with compromised lung capacity and low oxygen levels?

3. Are there side effects from taking Ivermectin at the higher levels and longer frequencies recommended for Covid that are different than the lower single dose treatment generally given for worms?

4. What is the optimal treatment regimen when using Ivermectin for Covid? When should it be given? How frequently and at what dosages? What conditions might be counter-indicated for taking Ivermectin? What side effects should doctors be watching for?

I don’t think billions of examples of people taking Ivermectin for scabies or round worms necessarily answers any of those questions.

Wouldn't most doctors who prescribe Ivermectin take all these things into account before prescribing it? Whatever happened with trusting one's doctor to have your best interest in mind?

Actually MOST doctors DON'T prescribe Ivermectin for Covid for these exact reasons. And because it isn't recommended by either the manufacturer or the FDA for that use. They feel that they don't have enough information to prescribe it safely and effectively and they feel that there isn't enough reliable clinical evidence to support it's use for Covid.

I didn't say most doctors prescribe it. I said most who prescribe it. There are probably more doctors prescribing it than you think. The NYT reported 4 days ago that "Prescriptions for ivermectin have jumped to more than 88000 per week". Should these doctors prescribing it be trusted to know what's best for their patients?

The NYT article is paywalled but I found the above quote by googling "ivermectin prescriptions 2021". BTW, I'd encourage you to do some research on FLCCC. I'm pretty sure they are not the group you mention in your reply to Josh.

[Bootstrap]

I didn't say most doctors prescribe it. I said most who prescribe it. There are probably more doctors prescribing it than you think. The NYT reported 4 days ago that "Prescriptions for ivermectin have jumped to more than 88000 per week". Should these doctors prescribing it be trusted to know what's best for their patients?

If they are prescribing medication in ways that the manufacturer and pretty much every medical authority says are bad, I would expect them to:

1. Explain that to their patient.
2. Explain the concerns that Merck and the medical associations are raising.
3. Explain why they are choosing to go against this advice.
4. Explain what the other options are and what the real risks are.

And I do trust some doctors more than others. Maybe I'm not alone.