Can we make MN less hostile?

[Robert]

I archived (moved off open forum) the thread about PeterG and Josh. I felt it was in poor taste and was in no way reducing the hostility.

WE have to make MN less hostile. Let us do better at showing love, respect and kindness to other's comments. Let us see the best in each other instead of the worst. It is not a top down action that is needed, but a bottom up.

[RZehr]

Speaking of archive…I was searching for an old post or topic (I don’t know what is was anymore) and it seemed the older posts were gone, or archived. Is there a way to search them or view them?

[Wayne in Maine]

I think there are people here who come in riding their hobby horse who see their task here to get other to join their crusade or at least to validate their belief. They must strive to convince the rests of us of their righteousness. To them I say pleas leave us alone or at least listen and learn in humility.

Others are natural contrarians. Well Anabaptists are contrarians, aren’t they? They oppose they world and its wickedness. Unfortunately for some ”Anabaptists” contrarians they adopt ideas and positions that are contrary even to common sense, or think they have a special position and protection or are “above the law”. They wield the bible like a sword – it cuts and injures. They defend their contrariness and even attempt to propagate it here. Sheath that sword I say.

There are other who have strong political positions driving their interactions here, I think some don’t even realize it, they think all Christians should be anti-Trump for example or anti-Democrat. Their perception of the Gospel embraces a civil/social political stance that, I believe, fits the fundamental values of Mennonites like a square peg in a round hole. Anabapatism is not the old Protestant Social Gospel or the God and Country civil religion of rural American Fundamentalism and Evangelical, even where we share some of the same concerns about the course of this wonderful nation. And when the right and left factions clash as “Mennonites”, what can one expect but hostility instead of unity in the Kingdom that is going to subsume the kingdoms of this world in their politics.

I want to speak specifically though about my dear brother Josh. I’m not going to shoehorn him into one of the categories above, he can make his own choice. Josh, in person, has always been a warm caring and generous brother to me. I love him to pieces. When I go the Anabaptist Identity conferences, he always helps me find lodging. He has rented cars for me and even put me up and comfortable rooms at the airport to make my travel comfortable and convenient. I know that is how he treats people in his life. He is zealous to help seekers find the way, not the way to his denomination (which is often despised among other Mennonites) but the way to Jesus and discipleship. I would love for PeterG and Josh to meet in my home and have fellowship with me someday because I think in their hearts they have the same spirit of Christ. Let there be peace among the brethren so that we can work together to propagate the message of the Kingdom. If necessary walk away from divisive issue, don't try to win an argument. One aspect of Gelassenheit that brother Chester Weaver identifies is an unwillingness to debate - to try to "win" an argument. It is actually a part of non-reisitance if you think about it.

I would advise my brother Josh (and others) to take his Covid contrariness to another forum for debate. And on that whole topic I would advise that we followers of Jesus should cooperate with the authorities. A mask is as great a witness as a head covering. Vaccines do protect even if they are not perfect. Do things to protect not only yourself but others. I am among the vulnerable who could die for someone else’s right not to get vaccinated or wear a mask. Think about me and my dear family when you assert your rights – there are many more of us out here depending on you to make a little sacrifice for us.

"May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had." (Romans 15:5)

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Phillipans 4:8)

"Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

[Robert]

Speaking of archive…I was searching for an old post or topic (I don’t know what is was anymore) and it seemed the older posts were gone, or archived. Is there a way to search them or view them?

Check with OJ. He is a master at finding old threads. They are not archived and can be searched and found using the right key words in searching. It can be tricky at times.

When we "archive" a thread, it is moved to a Mod only area and it can not be searched or read openly. We only archive things we see as problems or inappropriate topics. It is not done a lot. Most just get left to time and abundant new posts.

I hope you can find what you are looking for. I have spent time doing that and not always successfully.

[Sudsy]

I think there are people here who come in riding their hobby horse who see their task here to get other to join their crusade or at least to validate their belief. They must strive to convince the rests of us of their righteousness. To them I say pleas leave us alone or at least listen and learn in humility.

Others are natural contrarians. Well Anabaptists are contrarians, aren’t they? They oppose they world and its wickedness. Unfortunately for some ”Anabaptists” contrarians they adopt ideas and positions that are contrary even to common sense, or think they have a special position and protection or are “above the law”. They wield the bible like a sword – it cuts and injures. They defend their contrariness and even attempt to propagate it here. Sheath that sword I say.

There are other who have strong political positions driving their interactions here, I think some don’t even realize it, they think all Christians should be anti-Trump for example or anti-Democrat. Their perception of the Gospel embraces a civil/social political stance that, I believe, fits the fundamental values of Mennonites like a square peg in a round hole. Anabapatism is not the old Protestant Social Gospel or the God and Country civil religion of rural American Fundamentalism and Evangelical, even where we share some of the same concerns about the course of this wonderful nation. And when the right and left factions clash as “Mennonites”, what can one expect but hostility instead of unity in the Kingdom that is going to subsume the kingdoms of this world in their politics.

I want to speak specifically though about my dear brother Josh. I’m not going to shoehorn him into one of the categories above, he can make his own choice. Josh, in person, has always been a warm caring and generous brother to me. I love him to pieces. When I go the Anabaptist Identity conferences, he always helps me find lodging. He has rented cars for me and even put me up and comfortable rooms at the airport to make my travel comfortable and convenient. I know that is how he treats people in his life. He is zealous to help seekers find the way, not the way to his denomination (which is often despised among other Mennonites) but the way to Jesus and discipleship. I would love for PeterG and Josh to meet in my home and have fellowship with me someday because I think in their hearts they have the same spirit of Christ. Let there be peace among the brethren so that we can work together to propagate the message of the Kingdom. If necessary walk away from divisive issue, don't try to win an argument. One aspect of Gelassenheit that brother Chester Weaver identifies is an unwillingness to debate - to try to "win" an argument. It is actually a part of non-reisitance if you think about it.

I would advise my brother Josh (and others) to take his Covid contrariness to another forum for debate. And on that whole topic I would advise that we followers of Jesus should cooperate with the authorities. A mask is as great a witness as a head covering. Vaccines do protect even if they are not perfect. Do things to protect not only yourself but others. I am among the vulnerable who could die for someone else’s right not to get vaccinated or wear a mask. Think about me and my dear family when you assert your rights – there are many more of us out here depending on you to make a little sacrifice for us.

"May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had." (Romans 15:5)

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things." (Phillipans 4:8)

"Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:32)

Good words of encouragement to meditate on.

[RZehr]

I want to speak specifically though about my dear brother Josh. I’m not going to shoehorn him into one of the categories above, he can make his own choice. Josh, in person, has always been a warm caring and generous brother to me. I love him to pieces. When I go the Anabaptist Identity conferences, he always helps me find lodging. He has rented cars for me and even put me up and comfortable rooms at the airport to make my travel comfortable and convenient. I know that is how he treats people in his life. He is zealous to help seekers find the way, not the way to his denomination (which is often despised among other Mennonites) but the way to Jesus and discipleship.

Thank you for your whole post Wayne.

This part I’ll add to, simply because it has been my experience as well. While Josh has not helped me with travel arrangements, (Yet. I’m open to it Josh ) his conduct and spirit that you experienced has matched my experience with Josh in person. Josh is not a long time IRL acquaintance of mine, but rather a MennoNet person that I have eventually over the years been able to meet with IRL a few times, and spoke on the phone with a few times. IRL he has always been gracious with me.

I expect sometimes Josh’s posts or spirit, does fit into some of categories listed above.
Before he was saved, I understand he had a certain appreciation of trolling. He was also active in the political left wing causes to some extent. I believe we see some of these things, or his reaction to those thing here.

Should he be more careful about “putting words in others mouths”, etc.? Sure.

This is not a post to “take Josh’s side”. I’m merely collaborating Wayne’s experience with the man.

[RZehr]

*Corroborate. I’m not collaborating.

[nett]

A mask is as great a witness as a head covering.

My goodness. Listen to yourself.

I've been making the argument that masks are a religious talisman for a while now, but this is further than I ever thought I'd see it taken.

[temporal1]

“Most frequently repeated” ?? !

"I" statements people! Let us stop deciding what others should say and post and just post what we think.

I feel people are projecting into what others are saying WAY too much.

Ask a question if you think it sounds too harsh or incorrect instead of being the posting police and correcting the other poster.

If you can't ask a question, then make a statement about what you think or feel using an "I" statement, not a "you" statement.

If you want MN to be less harsh, stop attacking what others are posting. Just share YOUR perspective and stop correcting someone else.

[QuietlyListening]

I think all should read this and take note. This isn't to point fingers at anyone- and it is not for others to read and say to themselves- so and so should read this. We all need to read and take note. A friend posted this in Facebook and I really liked what it said.


My greatest concern is not that our culture is angry. My greatest concern is that this sense of meanness has even invaded many corners of the church. Christians on both sides of the political spectrum justify their anger toward others by claiming to be fighting for justice or Christian liberty or the future of our country, or whatever other narrative fits their desire to express their more base emotions.


There is no room among Christ’s followers for meanness. In a dark world the light of Christ must shine through with love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, and self-control. Christians must be willing to be wronged, if being wronged enables the gospel of Christ to go forward and the glory of Christ to shine brighter to a lost world.


Here is a link to the entire article if you wish to read it.

http://www.craigthompson.org/2021/12/01 ... an-virtue/