Coronavirus Outbreak

[Ken]

Who's been vaccinated to date? NBC polling takes a deep dive into that question. I don't think the results are that surprising given what we already know. Only one subgroup failed to hit 50%. And there is one obvious factor that, more than any other, determines whether or not one is vaccinated in this country: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1277514

• All adults: 69 percent
• Men: 67 percent
• Women: 71 percent
• 18-34: 63 percent
• 35-49: 58 percent
• 50-64: 71 percent
• 65+: 86 percent
• Whites: 66 percent
• Blacks: 76 percent
• Latinos: 71 percent
• Urban residents: 79 percent
• Suburban residents: 67 percent
• Rural residents: 52 percent
• White evangelicals: 59 percent
• Democrats: 88 percent
• Independents: 60 percent
• Republicans: 55 percent
• Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
• Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
• Democratic Sanders-Warren voters: 88 percent
• Democratic Biden voters: 87 percent
• Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
• Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent
• White non-college grads: 60 percent
• White college grads: 80 percent

[Josh]

It would be interesting to think about what triggers the initial interest in or opposition to these alternative drugs like ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine...and why the response to them is so predictably partisan?

I suspect it hasn't always been so.

People display their political affiliations and whether they are a "good" person by who's "side" they are on.

Left wing / "mainstream" people make sure to criticise any possible COVID treatments and promote vaccination.

Right wing / "resistance" people make sure to promote any possible COVID treatments and criticise vaccination.

Currently, most of mainstream academia and mainstream "science" (including Big Pharma businesses) are in the left wing / "mainstream" camp. There probably isn't any particular reason it is this way, and it could possibly change. For example, I was very pro-vaccine last year on this forum, although I was doubtful vaccines for coronaviruses could be made successfully. But nowadays, any such position is effectively a political position.

[Josh]

Who's been vaccinated to date? NBC polling takes a deep dive into that question. I don't think the results are that surprising given what we already know. Only one subgroup failed to hit 50%. And there is one obvious factor that, more than any other, determines whether or not one is vaccinated in this country: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1277514

Based on your above list, vaccination has obviously become a political decision, and thus all messaging / "research" about it is necessarily politicised. I wish people like you would be more honest that the main reason you've chosen to get vaccinated is because of your political leanings.

Part of politics is looking down on / having contempt for people who believe differently. I think this is a behaviour you regularly model on this forum. A lot of people don't want to get vaccinated. There is no need to look down on someone for holding a different political position than you do.

If the powers that be really wanted universal vaccination, they would have de-politicised it.

[Ken]

Who's been vaccinated to date? NBC polling takes a deep dive into that question. I don't think the results are that surprising given what we already know. Only one subgroup failed to hit 50%. And there is one obvious factor that, more than any other, determines whether or not one is vaccinated in this country: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1277514

Based on your above list, vaccination has obviously become a political decision, and thus all messaging / "research" about it is necessarily politicised. I wish people like you would be more honest that the main reason you've chosen to get vaccinated is because of your political leanings.

Part of politics is looking down on / having contempt for people who believe differently. I think this is a behaviour you regularly model on this forum. A lot of people don't want to get vaccinated. There is no need to look down on someone for holding a different political position than you do.

If the powers that be really wanted universal vaccination, they would have de-politicised it.

There is really only one country on the planet where vaccinations have been politicized to this extent. And really only one party that has politicized vaccinations and other pandemic measures. In every other country that I'm familiar with, fighting the pandemic is a bipartisan effort.

And no Josh. I don't look to politics to determine what sort of public health or personal health measures to follow or believe. I was supportive of vaccines when Trump was president and I'm supportive now.

[Josh]

There is really only one country on the planet where vaccinations have been politicized to this extent. And really only one party that has politicized vaccinations and other pandemic measures. In every other country that I'm familiar with, fighting the pandemic is a bipartisan effort.

Well, since we're both in America, perhaps it's reasonable for us to talk about how things are done in America. If you really hate America, you're always free to move somewhere else. You keep proclaiming how great Chile is, so maybe you should go there if you like it better.

I'm not even American, but I don't really have much of a free choice to go back to Australia unless I want to live my life confined to a 5-mile radius where it's illegal to leave your house, even to go to your job, let alone do things like go to church. Plus if I went back to Australia I would not be allowed to leave the country, so I couldn't see my family in America anymore. My brother over in Australia probably won't get to attend his son's wedding. Going to a wedding is not a valid reason to leave the country in Australia's eyes.

Whether or not this is "politicised", I think that complete lack of freedom and totalitarianism is very bad. I'd much rather be in a country that has freedom to do things like not get a new, experimental vaccine if I don't want to or I have religious convictions against doing so, or that lets me travel a few hundred miles to visit someone. And I'd rather not live in a country that requires covering one's face in public.

Sounds like it might be a perfect country for you, though. Dissent is banned. Anyone disagreeing with the mainstream views on vaccines and covid faces prosecution.

[Ken]

There is really only one country on the planet where vaccinations have been politicized to this extent. And really only one party that has politicized vaccinations and other pandemic measures. In every other country that I'm familiar with, fighting the pandemic is a bipartisan effort.

Well, since we're both in America, perhaps it's reasonable for us to talk about how things are done in America. If you really hate America, you're always free to move somewhere else. You keep proclaiming how great Chile is, so maybe you should go there if you like it better.

I'm not even American, but I don't really have much of a free choice to go back to Australia unless I want to live my life confined to a 5-mile radius where it's illegal to leave your house, even to go to your job, let alone do things like go to church. Plus if I went back to Australia I would not be allowed to leave the country, so I couldn't see my family in America anymore. My brother over in Australia probably won't get to attend his son's wedding. Going to a wedding is not a valid reason to leave the country in Australia's eyes.

Whether or not this is "politicised", I think that complete lack of freedom and totalitarianism is very bad. I'd much rather be in a country that has freedom to do things like not get a new, experimental vaccine if I don't want to or I have religious convictions against doing so, or that lets me travel a few hundred miles to visit someone. And I'd rather not live in a country that requires covering one's face in public.

Sounds like it might be a perfect country for you, though. Dissent is banned. Anyone disagreeing with the mainstream views on vaccines and covid faces prosecution.

I view the term "politicized" to mean measures or positions that are taken for political partisan gain rather than public good. Australia's prime minister and government is seeing declining poll numbers so whatever measures they are currently taking are for reasons other than the political. It is hurting them not helping them. I don't pay much attention to Australian politics, but I don't see them weaponizing Covid measures for political gain.

In a non-Covid context I would point to something like the Iraq War as having been politicized in the whole run-up to war in 2003. All of the Iraq war votes were taken for maximum political effect and timing. And the Invasion of Iraq was conducted for maximum domestic political benefit.

Unpopular but necessary measures are the opposite of political.

[Josh]

Unpopular but necessary measures are the opposite of political.

If politicians are taking unpopular measures, it simply means they are answering to someone other than the voters. That's a bad thing.

Do you think how locked down Australia is, is a good thing? I think it's really bad. And in any case it's not even working anymore. There is really no way to prevent every human on earth from being exposed to, and possibly contracting, COVID. It's like trying to prevent the common cold. It just can't be done.

The cost is people's freedom including their mental health and lost childhoods from lockdowns that go on for years. There is no end in sight for that.

[Robert]

Who's been vaccinated to date? NBC polling takes a deep dive into that question. I don't think the results are that surprising given what we already know. Only one subgroup failed to hit 50%. And there is one obvious factor that, more than any other, determines whether or not one is vaccinated in this country: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1277514

• All adults: 69 percent
• Men: 67 percent
• Women: 71 percent
• 18-34: 63 percent
• 35-49: 58 percent
• 50-64: 71 percent
• 65+: 86 percent
• Whites: 66 percent
• Blacks: 76 percent
• Latinos: 71 percent
• Urban residents: 79 percent
• Suburban residents: 67 percent
• Rural residents: 52 percent
• White evangelicals: 59 percent
• Democrats: 88 percent
• Independents: 60 percent
• Republicans: 55 percent
• Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
• Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
• Democratic Sanders-Warren voters: 88 percent
• Democratic Biden voters: 87 percent
• Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
• Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent
• White non-college grads: 60 percent
• White college grads: 80 percent

I question some of these numbers. Every state I looked at showed hispanic and blacks lagging in vaccinations.

I also wonder how they separate out Trump supporters. I would be very interested in seeing their methodology. I suspect it is like other things on NBC, manipulated to get their desired results.

[Ken]

Who's been vaccinated to date? NBC polling takes a deep dive into that question. I don't think the results are that surprising given what we already know. Only one subgroup failed to hit 50%. And there is one obvious factor that, more than any other, determines whether or not one is vaccinated in this country: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... s-n1277514

• All adults: 69 percent
• Men: 67 percent
• Women: 71 percent
• 18-34: 63 percent
• 35-49: 58 percent
• 50-64: 71 percent
• 65+: 86 percent
• Whites: 66 percent
• Blacks: 76 percent
• Latinos: 71 percent
• Urban residents: 79 percent
• Suburban residents: 67 percent
• Rural residents: 52 percent
• White evangelicals: 59 percent
• Democrats: 88 percent
• Independents: 60 percent
• Republicans: 55 percent
• Republicans who support Trump more than party: 46 percent
• Republicans who support party more than Trump: 62 percent
• Democratic Sanders-Warren voters: 88 percent
• Democratic Biden voters: 87 percent
• Biden voters in 2020 general election: 91 percent
• Trump voters in 2020 general election: 50 percent
• White non-college grads: 60 percent
• White college grads: 80 percent

I question some of these numbers. Every state I looked at showed hispanic and blacks lagging in vaccinations.

I also wonder how they separate out Trump supporters. I would be very interested in seeing their methodology. I suspect it is like other things on NBC, manipulated to get their desired results.

It was a poll, not a parsing of state vaccination data. I don't know the methodology. But obviously they couldn't get most of this information from vaccination data.

[Josh]

They also left out people with Ph.D’s who are the most vaccine sceptical group.