Coronavirus Outbreak

[Soloist]

Interesting how the nurses get the opposite argument "there is no way you caught it from work"

[Ken]

Am I correct that the linked meta analysis of 63 Ivermectin studies includes peer reviewed studies that show very similar results as the other studies? Am I missing something here that would help me understand why Ivermectin should not be used as a treatment for Covid?

https://ivmmeta.com/

The site you linked to is completely anonymous. I could not find one single person willing to put their name to any of their work or conclusions. Which would immediately make me suspicious. We have lots of other attributed work that calls into question the validity of the data and conclusions of some of these Ivermectin studies.

We have an actual FDA approval process for medications in this country. Thousands of other medications have managed to go through that process. Until that is done for Ivermectin, most licensed health care professionals are not going to use it to treat Covid no matter what some anonymous web site says. But there are always going to be a few attention-seeking types who will make a big splash promoting it because there seems to be a market for that kind of thing. We have a guy in my town who is not even a physician but just a physicians assistant. And he has a bunch of disciplinary issues on his license and being investigated by the state for a bunch of other unrelated stuff. But he has gone whole hog into first the hydroxychloroquine thing and now the Ivermectin thing and so has generated a whole posse of blindly loyal followers and is cashing in. He goes around to local school board meetings to speak out against masks, which has given him an even bigger cult following. So people are beating down his door to put their kids under his "care". It's good business I guess.

This whole search for alternative off-label remedies for Covid is kind of a mystery to me. Why do you guys not do the same for any other medication? No one is out there putting up YouTube videos promoting veterinary alternatives to statins for cholesterol or anonymous web sites promoting unapproved treatment regimes for diabetes or hepatitis instead of the normal treatments for those diseases. What is is about Covid that has sent so many people into the dark recesses of the web?

[GaryK]

Am I correct that the linked meta analysis of 63 Ivermectin studies includes peer reviewed studies that show very similar results as the other studies? Am I missing something here that would help me understand why Ivermectin should not be used as a treatment for Covid?

https://ivmmeta.com/

The site you linked to is completely anonymous. I could not find one single person willing to put their name to any of their work or conclusions. Which would immediately make me suspicious. We have lots of other attributed work that calls into question the validity of the data and conclusions of some of these Ivermectin studies.

We have an actual FDA approval process for medications in this country. Thousands of other medications have managed to go through that process. Until that is done for Ivermectin, most licensed health care professionals are not going to use it to treat Covid no matter what some anonymous web site says. But there are always going to be a few attention-seeking types who will make a big splash promoting it because there seems to be a market for that kind of thing. We have a guy in my town who is not even a physician but just a physicians assistant. And he has a bunch of disciplinary issues on his license and being investigated by the state for a bunch of other unrelated stuff. But he has gone whole hog into first the hydroxychloroquine thing and now the Ivermectin thing and so has generated a whole posse of blindly loyal followers and is cashing in. He goes around to local school board meetings to speak out against masks, which has given him an even bigger cult following. So people are beating down his door to put their kids under his "care". It's good business I guess.

This whole search for alternative off-label remedies for Covid is kind of a mystery to me. Why do you guys not do the same for any other medication? No one is out there putting up YouTube videos promoting veterinary alternatives to statins for cholesterol or anonymous web sites promoting unapproved treatment regimes for diabetes or hepatitis instead of the normal treatments for those diseases. What is is about Covid that has sent so many people into the dark recesses of the web?

When I click on the peer-reviewed studies and go to the source document, the names of the people doing the studies are clearly on the document.

Are you suggesting these studies were done using veterinary Ivermectin? The condescending tone of your reply is not helpful. I was not looking for youtube videos but rather peer reviewed studies on Ivermectin. Do you care to look at the source documents and respond to those peer reviewed studies and tell me why I should be skeptical of those studies?

[ohio jones]

What is is about Covid that has sent so many people into the dark recesses of the web?

The media has hyped Covid to the point that it dominates our lives (even here: 505 pages) and generated an enormous amount of fear. At the same time, many people believe that the media cannot be trusted; understandably so, given their track record on other issues. So people look frantically for answers wherever they can find them. It becomes a question of epistemology: How do we know what truth is, and where can we find it? Unfortunately, many people have not developed their skills in this area and are looking to untrustworthy sources.

[Josh]

Ivermectin is completely safe. In the U.S. there were 100,000 prescriptions for it last year. In the third world it's basically given out like candy and billions of people take it.

Whether or not is effective against COVID-19 is another matter, but there is absolutely no basis to claim ivermectin is not safe to use.

As far as anyone claiming it should only be used on horses, not people, well, pharmaceuticals are pharmaceuticals, and it doesn't matter if they are prescribed for humans or animals. They're the same chemical. When I needed to get pills for our cat, we went to a regular people-pharmacy and got people-prescriptions. I don't really recommend this, but lots of people save money by using veterinary antibiotics, which are much cheaper in bulk than going to a drugstore and getting a prescription from a doctor.

In any case, ivermectin looks about as effective as getting a COVID-19 vaccine to try to treat symptoms. How many people have died so far from ivermectin?

[Dan Z]

It would be interesting to think about what triggers the initial interest in or opposition to these alternative drugs like ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine...and why the response to them is so predictably partisan?

I suspect it hasn't always been so.

[GaryK]

Here is another review on the use of Ivermectin as a Covid-19 treatment. I found this by searching on the NIH website. From what I'm seeing, it appears that Ivermectin is effective against Covid. Am I missing something?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/

[Ken]

Am I correct that the linked meta analysis of 63 Ivermectin studies includes peer reviewed studies that show very similar results as the other studies? Am I missing something here that would help me understand why Ivermectin should not be used as a treatment for Covid?

https://ivmmeta.com/

The site you linked to is completely anonymous. I could not find one single person willing to put their name to any of their work or conclusions. Which would immediately make me suspicious. We have lots of other attributed work that calls into question the validity of the data and conclusions of some of these Ivermectin studies.

We have an actual FDA approval process for medications in this country. Thousands of other medications have managed to go through that process. Until that is done for Ivermectin, most licensed health care professionals are not going to use it to treat Covid no matter what some anonymous web site says. But there are always going to be a few attention-seeking types who will make a big splash promoting it because there seems to be a market for that kind of thing. We have a guy in my town who is not even a physician but just a physicians assistant. And he has a bunch of disciplinary issues on his license and being investigated by the state for a bunch of other unrelated stuff. But he has gone whole hog into first the hydroxychloroquine thing and now the Ivermectin thing and so has generated a whole posse of blindly loyal followers and is cashing in. He goes around to local school board meetings to speak out against masks, which has given him an even bigger cult following. So people are beating down his door to put their kids under his "care". It's good business I guess.

This whole search for alternative off-label remedies for Covid is kind of a mystery to me. Why do you guys not do the same for any other medication? No one is out there putting up YouTube videos promoting veterinary alternatives to statins for cholesterol or anonymous web sites promoting unapproved treatment regimes for diabetes or hepatitis instead of the normal treatments for those diseases. What is is about Covid that has sent so many people into the dark recesses of the web?

When I click on the peer-reviewed studies and go to the source document, the names of the people doing the studies are clearly on the document.

Are you suggesting these studies were done using veterinary Ivermectin? The condescending tone of your reply is not helpful. I was not looking for youtube videos but rather peer reviewed studies on Ivermectin. Do you care to look at the source documents and respond to those peer reviewed studies and tell me why I should be skeptical of those studies?

I am saying that the web site you linked to is completely anonymous. Who is behind it? Can you find a single name or organization? Why all the clandestine secrecy?

[GaryK]

It would be interesting to think about what triggers the initial interest in or opposition to these alternative drugs like ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine...and why the response to them is so predictably partisan?

I suspect it hasn't always been so.

What triggered my interest in Ivermectin is that our former family doctor told my sister that if we have another spike, he is planning to treat his patients with it. I have no idea where he is politically, but knowing his straight-forward approach to medicine and knowing that he is very hesitant to quickly prescribe things for every little ailment, I have come to generally trust his judgment on things involving medicine.

[GaryK]

The site you linked to is completely anonymous. I could not find one single person willing to put their name to any of their work or conclusions. Which would immediately make me suspicious. We have lots of other attributed work that calls into question the validity of the data and conclusions of some of these Ivermectin studies.

We have an actual FDA approval process for medications in this country. Thousands of other medications have managed to go through that process. Until that is done for Ivermectin, most licensed health care professionals are not going to use it to treat Covid no matter what some anonymous web site says. But there are always going to be a few attention-seeking types who will make a big splash promoting it because there seems to be a market for that kind of thing. We have a guy in my town who is not even a physician but just a physicians assistant. And he has a bunch of disciplinary issues on his license and being investigated by the state for a bunch of other unrelated stuff. But he has gone whole hog into first the hydroxychloroquine thing and now the Ivermectin thing and so has generated a whole posse of blindly loyal followers and is cashing in. He goes around to local school board meetings to speak out against masks, which has given him an even bigger cult following. So people are beating down his door to put their kids under his "care". It's good business I guess.

This whole search for alternative off-label remedies for Covid is kind of a mystery to me. Why do you guys not do the same for any other medication? No one is out there putting up YouTube videos promoting veterinary alternatives to statins for cholesterol or anonymous web sites promoting unapproved treatment regimes for diabetes or hepatitis instead of the normal treatments for those diseases. What is is about Covid that has sent so many people into the dark recesses of the web?

When I click on the peer-reviewed studies and go to the source document, the names of the people doing the studies are clearly on the document.

Are you suggesting these studies were done using veterinary Ivermectin? The condescending tone of your reply is not helpful. I was not looking for youtube videos but rather peer reviewed studies on Ivermectin. Do you care to look at the source documents and respond to those peer reviewed studies and tell me why I should be skeptical of those studies?

I am saying that the web site you linked to is completely anonymous. Who is behind it? Can you find a single name or organization? Why all the clandestine secrecy?

I used the website to get to the actual peer reviewed studies. It seems to me that if they are interested in clandestine secrecy they have done a very poor job in keeping the actual studies secret. Do you care to respond to some of the actual studies? BTW, I just posted another review I found by searching on the nih.gov site. Do you care to respond to that review?