If your basic ethical stance is that you will not do anything that "participates in the gains from abortion", I can understand and respect that. And I do appreciate you sharing, I want to hear what you have to say.
Basically that is sufficient.
OK, I'm good with that. And I appreciate the helpful information you have given on specific vaccines.
Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:41 pmquote]I don't think I completely understand your position yet, I know that you are hard line against vaccines, I don't yet understand how you weigh that against risk to people now living. Maybe the answer is that you are simply unwilling to do anything that profits from abortion, even if it means risking the lives of other people now living. If so, I can respect that, but I have not heard you say that
I am not hard lined against vaccines. I fully support the use of non-mandated vaccines. My objection is purely the use of fetal cells in any medication or any vaccine, be it testing or production or research derived.[/quote]
Yes, I misspoke. Thanks for the correction.
Soloist wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:41 pm
I am not risking other's lives, I take decent precautions, I've actually had covid and no one outside of my family acquired it. I worked asymptomatically and if you knew me, you would know I am very cautious and to this date am still the only compliant nurse at my work in regard to hygiene and masking.
nett wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:14 pm
You missed the entire point. It's about participating in group sin for your own gain.
That's a clear statement of where you stand - and I think it's similar to what Soloist is saying. Would you take that same stance whether or not it would actually change the number of abortions, and even if it might result in more Covid-19 deaths?
nett wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:14 pmI also think abortion is about a richer harvest for the west than you realize. Children are viewed a liability, and net detractor from personal wealth. A mother sacrifices her child to gain wealth, comfort, status etc for herself and that benefits society (according to pro-choice murder advocates).
As Christians we have to decide whether we will participate in that benefit, and necessarily accept responsibility for the sin as well.
Yes, those are reasons that many parents choose to kill their babies. I don't think vaccines is high on the list. If we want to reduce abortions, I believe that working with young mothers and families or adopting babies will probably make more of a difference than choosing not to be vaccinated.
It's all for the same purpose though, we can benefit from sacrificing children. The intent was to benefit from a child sacrifice, as you agreed, continuing to benefit from it necessarily endorses that intent.
And yes, individuals can do a great deal to reduce abortions, I do fault the church for a lack of inaction. I believe that inaction is born out of apathy on whether abortion is actually a grave societal sin. Ken appears to be advocating abortion to remain legal, and that it's important to continue to make it accessible. Szdfan wrote a post yesterday indicating he feels compelled to teach children that abortion is a human right because of an intellectually bankrupt supreme court case (good luck explaining umbras and penumbras to your class). Teachers who are unable to even condemn abortion is wrong guarantees a complete lack of action at the institutional level. That's why I think it's important that abortion remain a black and white issue. it's a grave evil, and the state should outlaw grave evils, and punish those are perpetrate them.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:44 pm
I'm curious - does anyone think this is a salvation issue whether one takes the vaccine shots or not ?
I think with how modern medicine is going, it will eventually lead you away from God, so yes.
I'm going with Philippians 1:6 when Paul said -
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:44 pm
I'm curious - does anyone think this is a salvation issue whether one takes the vaccine shots or not ?
I think with how modern medicine is going, it will eventually lead you away from God, so yes.
I'm going with Philippians 1:6 when Paul said -
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.
Ok, and I will counter with 1 Timothy 4
Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings.
Sudsy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:44 pm
I'm curious - does anyone think this is a salvation issue whether one takes the vaccine shots or not ?
What do you mean by salvation?
If you are believer in Christ (saved/born again/redeemed) and you take these shots, regardless of your reasons, do you think God will disown you as His child and instead of giving you eternal life in heaven, He will send you to hell ?
I think with how modern medicine is going, it will eventually lead you away from God, so yes.
I'm going with Philippians 1:6 when Paul said -
And I am certain that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns.
Ok, and I will counter with 1 Timothy 4
Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings.
Do you think then that taking these shots is 'deserting the faith' or are you just speculating this to be a 'slippery slope' decision ?