Minimum wage: how much is too much?

[Sudsy]

It is a great time for each of us to look deep within ourselves and check where our affections are set.

AMEN !!!

[Soloist]

Of course not. You're setting up a ridiculously impossible scenario. Good advice would be to find something affordable for that income level. Don't know your town exactly, but in Berlin Ohio there are homes available for half that.

There is exactly 1 home listed for under 200k in my area. I make 27 an hour. Some people can't just up and move, they need to find a job, get hired and then get a mortgage. Generally speaking you need to be able to put 10% or better down unless you are ex-military. Not only that, but no one would give me a mortgage as I do not have a stable job with consistent hours. Some weeks I get 8 hours, other weeks I get 40. For me its a reality of switching careers. Looking in the local area with Mennonites, there is nothing at all posted for that price.

Its not that impossible of a scenario. What job can I get in Berlin Ohio that could afford 80k and above?

Oh and did I mention that 1 home is on a mobile home lot that charges about 500+ for rent?

[mike]

I don't really see what financial advice I can give to someone who is making, say, $25/hr (that rate includes mandatory overtime) at his job, with 3 kids, who overall is being a much more responsible person than he used to be in the past. There really is no "advice" that will square the circle of how he can translate that into buying a $250,000 house.

Of course not. You're setting up a ridiculously impossible scenario. Good advice would be to find something affordable for that income level. Don't know your town exactly, but in Berlin Ohio there are homes available for half that.

Ridiculous and impossible? The young men here are making less than $25/hr looking at $300,000 bottom of the barrel homes.
You other people are living in spot where inflation and housing shortage having hit yet?

Well yes, at first glance, it really seemed ridiculously impossible to buy a $250,000 home on a $50,000 a year income (which is about what $25/hour makes you sans overtime). However, I guess that may depend on how much a person is willing to financially strap himself. On a 30-year fixed at 3.92% the payment is $1182 a month. I suppose one could do that if they were careful. That's less than $15K a year, so yes, I suppose that may not be ridiculously impossible.

However my main point to Josh was that for his area there are far more reasonable options. It's a false quandary to tell somebody in Holmes County Ohio that they have no option but to buy a $250K house.

[ken_sylvania]

Of course not. You're setting up a ridiculously impossible scenario. Good advice would be to find something affordable for that income level. Don't know your town exactly, but in Berlin Ohio there are homes available for half that.

Ridiculous and impossible? The young men here are making less than $25/hr looking at $300,000 bottom of the barrel homes.
You other people are living in spot where inflation and housing shortage having hit yet?

Well yes, at first glance, it really seemed ridiculously impossible to buy a $250,000 home on a $50,000 a year income (which is about what $25/hour makes you sans overtime). However, I guess that may depend on how much a person is willing to financially strap himself. On a 30-year fixed at 3.92% the payment is $1182 a month. I suppose one could do that if they were careful. That's less than $15K a year, so yes, I suppose that may not be ridiculously impossible.

However my main point to Josh was that for his area there are far more reasonable options. It's a false quandary to tell somebody in Holmes County Ohio that they have no option but to buy a $250K house.

There are folks who make $30,000 a year or less and are able to survive, so I would think someone who makes $50,000 a year ought to be able to afford a $15,000/year mortgage payment.

[Wade]

Of course not. You're setting up a ridiculously impossible scenario. Good advice would be to find something affordable for that income level. Don't know your town exactly, but in Berlin Ohio there are homes available for half that.

Ridiculous and impossible? The young men here are making less than $25/hr looking at $300,000 bottom of the barrel homes.
You other people are living in spot where inflation and housing shortage having hit yet?

Well yes, at first glance, it really seemed ridiculously impossible to buy a $250,000 home on a $50,000 a year income (which is about what $25/hour makes you sans overtime). However, I guess that may depend on how much a person is willing to financially strap himself. On a 30-year fixed at 3.92% the payment is $1182 a month. I suppose one could do that if they were careful. That's less than $15K a year, so yes, I suppose that may not be ridiculously impossible.

However my main point to Josh was that for his area there are far more reasonable options. It's a false quandary to tell somebody in Holmes County Ohio that they have no option but to buy a $250K house.

Sounds like an incredibly inexpensive place to live if houses can be bought for that low of price. And that temptation to move to a cheaper place to live is part of our problem here. People can sell there absolute junker of a home in Vancouver for $1,000,000 and then they buy houses here with cash and site unseen. Locals with high wages like mine can't compete and I believe eventually more and more younger people will be forced out of rural areas with big city people moving in. But since starter houses in the City are 1 million I'm not sure where they will go - maybe to other countries?

[Ken]

I think part of the problem is that we have utterly unrealistic ideas of what is reasonable and normal in terms of lifestyle and incomes in this country. It simply isn't sustainable to think that every blue collar worker can afford a 2500 sf home in the suburbs with two cars and a boat. That might have been possible for a narrow window of time in the 1950s and 1960s after WW2 when the US was the only industrialized nation left standing and we were pouring billions of dollars into supporting that lifestyle in terms of subsidized highways, schools, the GI-bill, VA loans and so forth. Those days are long past.

Housing isn't nearly the crisis in many other countries including many that are much more dense than the US and less wealthy. Why is that? Two basic reasons:

1. Housing is less extravagant and more modest. American-style subdivisions are incredibly inefficient with all the winding roads, cul-de-sacs and large lots. In sprawling American subdivisions every house requires 10x more water pipe, sewer pipe, electrical mains, paved streets, fiber for high-speed internet, and so forth. Because houses are 10x further apart than say 19th Century row houses on small city blocks. And then because everything is so spread out, each family must own multiple cars just go get around, get to work and school, get groceries and so forth. Worse still are exurban semi-rural areas where people like to live on 4-5 acre "hobby farms" and so forth. My in-laws live in an upscale part of Santiago Chile but even there it is very uncommon for 18-21 year olds to move out of the house and get their own apartments until they are married, multiple cars are uncommon because public transit is widely available and most of your daily needs are within walking distance. And people just generally get by with less space. If you have to live on a 4th floor flat rather than suburban house so be it. Life is still fine.

2. Safety nets are more comprehensive. In most of northern Europe health care is largely free (or subsidized by tax dollars), education is largely free or inexpensive including college, child care is readily available and highly subsidized. Higher densities mean public transit is more readily available and cars are less necessary. And public housing is much more available and subsidized. So lower wage workers have far less economic stress than in the US.

I don't expect much is ever going to change in the US. We are never going to be Europe, nor do we necessarily want to be. And they have their own problems. But the American suburban/exurban lifestyle is just not going to be indefinitely sustainable.

[Josh]

I don't really see what financial advice I can give to someone who is making, say, $25/hr (that rate includes mandatory overtime) at his job, with 3 kids, who overall is being a much more responsible person than he used to be in the past. There really is no "advice" that will square the circle of how he can translate that into buying a $250,000 house.

Of course not. You're setting up a ridiculously impossible scenario. Good advice would be to find something affordable for that income level. Don't know your town exactly, but in Berlin Ohio there are homes available for half that.

Rather amusing - by the time I clicked this link the results were gone. 0 results now.

Berlin OH has 2 pending, one for $1, and then some bare ground for $225k.

[ken_sylvania]

Ridiculous and impossible? The young men here are making less than $25/hr looking at $300,000 bottom of the barrel homes.
You other people are living in spot where inflation and housing shortage having hit yet?

Well yes, at first glance, it really seemed ridiculously impossible to buy a $250,000 home on a $50,000 a year income (which is about what $25/hour makes you sans overtime). However, I guess that may depend on how much a person is willing to financially strap himself. On a 30-year fixed at 3.92% the payment is $1182 a month. I suppose one could do that if they were careful. That's less than $15K a year, so yes, I suppose that may not be ridiculously impossible.

However my main point to Josh was that for his area there are far more reasonable options. It's a false quandary to tell somebody in Holmes County Ohio that they have no option but to buy a $250K house.

Sounds like an incredibly inexpensive place to live if houses can be bought for that low of price. And that temptation to move to a cheaper place to live is part of our problem here. People can sell there absolute junker of a home in Vancouver for $1,000,000 and then they buy houses here with cash and site unseen. Locals with high wages like mine can't compete and I believe eventually more and more younger people will be forced out of rural areas with big city people moving in. But since starter houses in the City are 1 million I'm not sure where they will go - maybe to other countries?

Where will they go? They could go to Detroit.
Currently more than 100 listings for $10,000 or less.

Try this one, Josh. Listings Detroit, MI

[Wade]

Every baby boomer I talk with just doesn't get it... There are a few young people I know that have sucked the equity from their homes to buy those two vehicles and boats - the ones you once paid cash for. Us Christians have no desire for the material wealth, boats, quads and etc. that our parents easily had and vacations each year. My main issue is you baby boomers keep telling me go buy a new vehicle, why don't you fix the holes in your floor, you know the mould in this window is bad for your child and you should replace it... Stop giving us advice! We don't have the boat and toys and we don't have the money to fix all these things. Most all our money goes to huge mortgages because of paying for YOUR elevated lifestyle and then with the size of my family we can easily spend over $2000/month on food. Just leave us alone and quit telling us we are whining or have a better lifestyle than you did - it is not true - cellphones isn't an improvement on lifestyle - there is nothing else that is different than you had when younger - except like was mentioned earlier washing machines that beep more and clean less.

[Josh]

Ken,

The problem is that affordable, safe housing on small city lots basically doesn’t exist anymore. You can only do it if you live in a dangerous neighbourhood.

If you have access to a private school this decision is a little easier since you can at least choose a place with bad public schools.

For non Mennonites, the outlook is very bleak.