400 Years of African Slavery in America

[Only an Anz]

Okay, so what in the past is important? Do we want to talk about Ottoman Empire slavery, which is the most recent, legal widespread chattel slavery?

You would like to make this a dichotomous issue; I would not.

Why don’t you want to acknowledge Ottoman slavery? It’s far more relevant to us (lots of Anabaptists ended up slaved), and we also have the modern day descendant of that regime steadfastly refusing to acknowledge their history of slavery and genocide.

Or do you want to talk about slavery in the distant past? Slavery was a big problem for my (distant) ancestors in Roman Britain.

So what makes American 19th century slavery somehow worthy of being front and centre and dominating the discourse?

Please point out where I said I won't acknowledge it? I'll wait.

[Ken]

Okay, so what in the past is important? Do we want to talk about Ottoman Empire slavery, which is the most recent, legal widespread chattel slavery?

You would like to make this a dichotomous issue; I would not.

Why don’t you want to acknowledge Ottoman slavery? It’s far more relevant to us (lots of Anabaptists ended up slaved), and we also have the modern day descendant of that regime steadfastly refusing to acknowledge their history of slavery and genocide.

Or do you want to talk about slavery in the distant past? Slavery was a big problem for my (distant) ancestors in Roman Britain.

So what makes American 19th century slavery somehow worthy of being front and centre and dominating the discourse?

Are you really that obtuse Josh?

Slavery in 19th Century America is central to AMERICAN history. Which is what this thread is about.

Slavery in other parts of the globe is relevant to the history of other parts of the globe. We could have a similar discussion about the import of 19th Century slavery in Brazil to both Brazilian history and modern-day Brazilian society and institutions. But that isn't this thread.

[Neto]

You would like to make this a dichotomous issue; I would not.

Why don’t you want to acknowledge Ottoman slavery? It’s far more relevant to us (lots of Anabaptists ended up slaved), and we also have the modern day descendant of that regime steadfastly refusing to acknowledge their history of slavery and genocide.

Or do you want to talk about slavery in the distant past? Slavery was a big problem for my (distant) ancestors in Roman Britain.

So what makes American 19th century slavery somehow worthy of being front and centre and dominating the discourse?

Are you really that obtuse Josh?

Slavery in 19th Century America is central to AMERICAN history. Which is what this thread is about.

Slavery in other parts of the globe is relevant to the history of other parts of the globe. We could have a similar discussion about the import of 19th Century slavery in Brazil to both Brazilian history and modern-day Brazilian society and institutions. But that isn't this thread.

Brazil is also a part of "America". Some Brazilians strongly resent the "Estado Unidenses" claiming the name "Americanos" as though they are the only "Americans".

[Bootstrap]

Josh, you aren't addressing the main question here. The history of America includes the history of black people. History is important to most groups of people - including many Mennonites. You seem to be demanding that people prove to you that black people have a right to have their story told, that they prove they have the right to care about slavery and other injustices they have faced. You don't seem to accept that there are valid reasons they may want that.

I don't think you have given good reasons for that. I would agree with anyone who says history should be rooted in verifiable facts, and there are some things the 1619 project gets wrong, but I think it is an important counterpoint to some of the ways history is taught in this country. I would not use it as a main textbook, but I hope that the good parts and the questions it raises do inform future textbooks. In any history class at the high school level, it's important to present various points of view and to present the experiences of various groups as they went through these events.

Slavery and the Civil War are really, really important parts of our history.

[Bootstrap]

Slavery in other parts of the globe is relevant to the history of other parts of the globe. We could have a similar discussion about the import of 19th Century slavery in Brazil to both Brazilian history and modern-day Brazilian society and institutions. But that isn't this thread.

Brazil is also a part of "America". Some Brazilians strongly resent the "Estado Unidenses" claiming the name "Americanos" as though they are the only "Americans".

I don't think you can teach the history of slavery well without looking at sugar plantations in the Caribbean and trade with Europe and Africa. I wouldn't be surprised if Brazil is also relevant, I just don't know much about that.

But surely the history of slavery is an important part of our history, and it should be taught with a recognition for what it meant to slaves.

[Neto]

So, a question, solely from the point of view of curiosity. For those who believe that additional reparations should be paid, who should pay? (All "White People"? Descendants of former slave owners? Companies which engaged directly in the slave trade? Descendants who have inherited property from these companies? The governments of nations which had legal slavery? All rich people over a certain "financial worth"? What about the descendants of those who sold the person for the first time?) I'm just curious how those who advocate for this envision the implementation of it.

[RZehr]

So, a question, solely from the point of view of curiosity. For those who believe that additional reparations should be paid, who should pay? (All "White People"? Descendants of former slave owners? Companies which engaged directly in the slave trade? Descendants who have inherited property from these companies? The governments of nations which had legal slavery? All rich people over a certain "financial worth"? What about the descendants of those who sold the person for the first time?) I'm just curious how those who advocate for this envision the implementation of it.

The gubmint, of course!

[Ken]

So, a question, solely from the point of view of curiosity. For those who believe that additional reparations should be paid, who should pay? (All "White People"? Descendants of former slave owners? Companies which engaged directly in the slave trade? Descendants who have inherited property from these companies? The governments of nations which had legal slavery? All rich people over a certain "financial worth"? What about the descendants of those who sold the person for the first time?) I'm just curious how those who advocate for this envision the implementation of it.

I don't think monetary reparations should be paid to individuals. I think that is pretty much a non-starter for a lot of reasons.

I do think we should work to eliminate remaining vestiges of slavery and segregation in our society and seek to create a more equitable society. That would be accomplishment enough.

[Josh]

I do think we should work to eliminate remaining vestiges of slavery and segregation in our society and seek to create a more equitable society. That would be accomplishment enough.

So far, attempts to do this have made a less-equitable society. The gap between the rich and the poor is much higher than it used to be, and America is actually more segregated than it used to be. In addition to segregating into many different ethnic groups (which is exacerbated by the mass waves of immigration into America), we now have stark segregation between rich and poor.

[Josh]

So, a question, solely from the point of view of curiosity. For those who believe that additional reparations should be paid, who should pay? (All "White People"? Descendants of former slave owners? Companies which engaged directly in the slave trade? Descendants who have inherited property from these companies? The governments of nations which had legal slavery? All rich people over a certain "financial worth"? What about the descendants of those who sold the person for the first time?) I'm just curious how those who advocate for this envision the implementation of it.

The gubmint, of course!

The debt ceiling currently at $22T needs raised to $28T soon, or else the U.S. government has to stop paying its debts. One wonders how many more trillions of debt those calling for "reparations" think would make things equitable.