By Thy Words

[ABC 123]

You're all free to remain in your own respective churches and instead write about how you've found a good way to do things instead of always criticising somebody else's church.

This would be so much easier to do if you didn't insert your one sided belief into every discussion and basically insinuate nobody is as holy as you. Sorry to be blunt, but it has been pointed out to you numerous times and you just keep doing it.

[Josh]

You're all free to remain in your own respective churches and instead write about how you've found a good way to do things instead of always criticising somebody else's church.

This would be so much easier to do if you didn't insert your one sided belief into every discussion and basically insinuate nobody is as holy as you. Sorry to be blunt, but it has been pointed out to you numerous times and you just keep doing it.

Exactly when I have I done this? Have I personally proselytised you to join my specific church? I barely even know or understand your situation.

If you pick up the idea that "nobody is as holy as you", you're really making a statement about yourself, in the sense you need validation from every single poster on an Internet forum. A lot of people who leave a conservative setting seem to constantly seek validation that they did the right thing. They have a deep-seated insecurity somewhere. I do not see it as my place to uncritically offer this validation.

I also think it is worth at least considering that people leaving churches isn't a good thing. Sometimes church gets so bad, that people do have to leave. But I think leaving Christianity altogether is not good, and I think exchanging a bad church for a worldly lifestyle isn't a good exchange either. I don't see either of these actions portrayed in the New Testament as a good thing.

The original topic of this thread, "By Thy Words", consists of someone who simply wants to find every avenue of attack against more-conservative groups. This is a hobby horse of less-conservative-people-who-are-still-conservative, and I think it's a bad one. People who are anti-Christian do the exact same thing against the Bible itself. They claim the Bible supports and promotes genocide, bigotry, rape, and many other bad things. Writing and thinking this way does not come from the Holy Spirit, but comes from a foreign spirit.

[Sliceitup]

You're all free to remain in your own respective churches and instead write about how you've found a good way to do things instead of always criticising somebody else's church.

This would be so much easier to do if you didn't insert your one sided belief into every discussion and basically insinuate nobody is as holy as you. Sorry to be blunt, but it has been pointed out to you numerous times and you just keep doing it.

Exactly when I have I done this? Have I personally proselytised you to join my specific church? I barely even know or understand your situation.

If you pick up the idea that "nobody is as holy as you", you're really making a statement about yourself, in the sense you need validation from every single poster on an Internet forum. A lot of people who leave a conservative setting seem to constantly seek validation that they did the right thing. They have a deep-seated insecurity somewhere. I do not see it as my place to uncritically offer this validation.

I also think it is worth at least considering that people leaving churches isn't a good thing. Sometimes church gets so bad, that people do have to leave. But I think leaving Christianity altogether is not good, and I think exchanging a bad church for a worldly lifestyle isn't a good exchange either. I don't see either of these actions portrayed in the New Testament as a good thing.

The original topic of this thread, "By Thy Words", consists of someone who simply wants to find every avenue of attack against more-conservative groups. This is a hobby horse of less-conservative-people-who-are-still-conservative, and I think it's a bad one. People who are anti-Christian do the exact same thing against the Bible itself. They claim the Bible supports and promotes genocide, bigotry, rape, and many other bad things. Writing and thinking this way does not come from the Holy Spirit, but comes from a foreign spirit.

I saw this comment last night that really reminded me of you, Josh. It went like this: Most of their online presence is just a series of sneering reactions to the ideas and views of others.

I’ve been active in this forum for probably less than a week, and already I’ve determined that it isn’t worth my time to engage with you. I can’t imagine how depressing it would be to try and communicate on this forum on a regular basis about thoughts and ideas and constantly encounter this hostile presence that derails topics and chases away meaningful discussion.

If you wish to have some advice on what you could do to improve this situation, I will freely offer up two suggestions:
1. Check your tone. You have this bull in the China shop persona. Think of this forum as a vehicle for dialogue, not a battlefield.
2. This might be more difficult, but step outside your black and white worldview. You seem to have little appreciation for nuance, incremental differences, and gray areas. I think that’s the most frustrating part for me, because I have little reason to engage someone who won’t be open to others ideas, because you link any incremental change to some inevitable dance and collaboration with the devil.

I know there have been times when people confronted me with the tone of my online presence and immediately I was so upset. But I marinated in the criticism for a bit, and eventually accepted that I had been doing what I was accused of. I still need to check myself. It’s so easy to come across as domineering and aggressive when you’re passionate about something. So I understand that, but I also would like to enjoy this forum more fully.

[Josh]

This would be so much easier to do if you didn't insert your one sided belief into every discussion and basically insinuate nobody is as holy as you. Sorry to be blunt, but it has been pointed out to you numerous times and you just keep doing it.

Exactly when I have I done this? Have I personally proselytised you to join my specific church? I barely even know or understand your situation.

If you pick up the idea that "nobody is as holy as you", you're really making a statement about yourself, in the sense you need validation from every single poster on an Internet forum. A lot of people who leave a conservative setting seem to constantly seek validation that they did the right thing. They have a deep-seated insecurity somewhere. I do not see it as my place to uncritically offer this validation.

I also think it is worth at least considering that people leaving churches isn't a good thing. Sometimes church gets so bad, that people do have to leave. But I think leaving Christianity altogether is not good, and I think exchanging a bad church for a worldly lifestyle isn't a good exchange either. I don't see either of these actions portrayed in the New Testament as a good thing.

The original topic of this thread, "By Thy Words", consists of someone who simply wants to find every avenue of attack against more-conservative groups. This is a hobby horse of less-conservative-people-who-are-still-conservative, and I think it's a bad one. People who are anti-Christian do the exact same thing against the Bible itself. They claim the Bible supports and promotes genocide, bigotry, rape, and many other bad things. Writing and thinking this way does not come from the Holy Spirit, but comes from a foreign spirit.

I saw this comment last night that really reminded me of you, Josh. It went like this: Most of their online presence is just a series of sneering reactions to the ideas and views of others.

I’ve been active in this forum for probably less than a week, and already I’ve determined that it isn’t worth my time to engage with you. I can’t imagine how depressing it would be to try and communicate on this forum on a regular basis about thoughts and ideas and constantly encounter this hostile presence that derails topics and chases away meaningful discussion.

If you wish to have some advice on what you could do to improve this situation, I will freely offer up two suggestions:
1. Check your tone. You have this bull in the China shop persona. Think of this forum as a vehicle for dialogue, not a battlefield.
2. This might be more difficult, but step outside your black and white worldview. You seem to have little appreciation for nuance, incremental differences, and gray areas. I think that’s the most frustrating part for me, because I have little reason to engage someone who won’t be open to others ideas, because you link any incremental change to some inevitable dance and collaboration with the devil.

I know there have been times when people confronted me with the tone of my online presence and immediately I was so upset. But I marinated in the criticism for a bit, and eventually accepted that I had been doing what I was accused of. I still need to check myself. It’s so easy to come across as domineering and aggressive when you’re passionate about something. So I understand that, but I also would like to enjoy this forum more fully.

“I just joined this forum. Let me tell you how you’re wrong. I’d like to enjoy it more and I would enjoy it if you’d just go away.”

I do have a black and white worldview. I believe in right and wrong. I don’t believe all beliefs are equal. There’s heaven and there’s hell, and everyone is going to either one or the other.

A lot of well meaning people are paving the way to hell with their equivocating. The world currently doesn’t suffer from too much Christianity - doesn’t suffer from too many Christian values. It’s suffering from not enough.

[ken_sylvania]

Exactly when I have I done this? Have I personally proselytised you to join my specific church? I barely even know or understand your situation.

If you pick up the idea that "nobody is as holy as you", you're really making a statement about yourself, in the sense you need validation from every single poster on an Internet forum. A lot of people who leave a conservative setting seem to constantly seek validation that they did the right thing. They have a deep-seated insecurity somewhere. I do not see it as my place to uncritically offer this validation.

I also think it is worth at least considering that people leaving churches isn't a good thing. Sometimes church gets so bad, that people do have to leave. But I think leaving Christianity altogether is not good, and I think exchanging a bad church for a worldly lifestyle isn't a good exchange either. I don't see either of these actions portrayed in the New Testament as a good thing.

The original topic of this thread, "By Thy Words", consists of someone who simply wants to find every avenue of attack against more-conservative groups. This is a hobby horse of less-conservative-people-who-are-still-conservative, and I think it's a bad one. People who are anti-Christian do the exact same thing against the Bible itself. They claim the Bible supports and promotes genocide, bigotry, rape, and many other bad things. Writing and thinking this way does not come from the Holy Spirit, but comes from a foreign spirit.

I saw this comment last night that really reminded me of you, Josh. It went like this: Most of their online presence is just a series of sneering reactions to the ideas and views of others.

I’ve been active in this forum for probably less than a week, and already I’ve determined that it isn’t worth my time to engage with you. I can’t imagine how depressing it would be to try and communicate on this forum on a regular basis about thoughts and ideas and constantly encounter this hostile presence that derails topics and chases away meaningful discussion.

If you wish to have some advice on what you could do to improve this situation, I will freely offer up two suggestions:
1. Check your tone. You have this bull in the China shop persona. Think of this forum as a vehicle for dialogue, not a battlefield.
2. This might be more difficult, but step outside your black and white worldview. You seem to have little appreciation for nuance, incremental differences, and gray areas. I think that’s the most frustrating part for me, because I have little reason to engage someone who won’t be open to others ideas, because you link any incremental change to some inevitable dance and collaboration with the devil.

I know there have been times when people confronted me with the tone of my online presence and immediately I was so upset. But I marinated in the criticism for a bit, and eventually accepted that I had been doing what I was accused of. I still need to check myself. It’s so easy to come across as domineering and aggressive when you’re passionate about something. So I understand that, but I also would like to enjoy this forum more fully.

“I just joined this forum. Let me tell you how you’re wrong. I’d like to enjoy it more and I would enjoy it if you’d just go away.”

I do have a black and white worldview. I believe in right and wrong. I don’t believe all beliefs are equal. There’s heaven and there’s hell, and everyone is going to either one or the other.

A lot of well meaning people are paving the way to hell with their equivocating. The world currently doesn’t suffer from too much Christianity - doesn’t suffer from too many Christian values. It’s suffering from not enough.

Sometimes it appears that in addition to believing in right and wrong, you also believe it is OK to bear false witness.....
and sometimes it appears that you don't believe Colossians 4:6a is intended for you.

[Abbott]

Have you or anyone from your church ever acknowledged that someone has left your church and may still be well within God's will for their life?

Have you or anyone from your church ever gone to to such a person, and said, "Go with God. We know His light and life is in you, and we bless that. Serve Him well."

That is thread worthy in itself

Ah, yes, another "criticise Holdemans" thread. Those sure have been useful in the past.

Everybody already has made up in their mind how bad it is that the Holdemans do things. You're all free to remain in your own respective churches and instead write about how you've found a good way to do things instead of always criticising somebody else's church.

Ah Josh, I almost admire the way you're able to take almost any comment and spin it into a perceived slight against whomever. You, my friend, are quite skillful. I took the question from Signtist to mean whether anyone from your specific congregation acknowledged . . . That's a fair question no matter what denomination you're from. I don't know much about the Holdemans. What do you have against them? Why not refrain from criticizing the Holdemans unless you can clearly explain what the issues are that you have with them?

[Josh]

That is thread worthy in itself

Ah, yes, another "criticise Holdemans" thread. Those sure have been useful in the past.

Everybody already has made up in their mind how bad it is that the Holdemans do things. You're all free to remain in your own respective churches and instead write about how you've found a good way to do things instead of always criticising somebody else's church.

Ah Josh, I almost admire the way you're able to take almost any comment and spin it into a perceived slight against whomever. You, my friend, are quite skillful. I took the question from Signtist to mean whether anyone from your specific congregation acknowledged . . . That's a fair question no matter what denomination you're from. I don't know much about the Holdemans. What do you have against them? Why not refrain from criticizing the Holdemans unless you can clearly explain what the issues are that you have with them?

You may be new to this forum. This specific question has been asked and answered multiple times. If someone wants to ask about or challenge Holdeman doctrine then go make a thread for that.

These are personal attacks. I don’t see why it’s useful to turn MennoNet into a forum for personal attacks. And I also don’t appreciate being asked to represent the entire Holdeman church. If you want to know their doctrine or church policies, call up a preacher or order some books from Gospel Publishers.

[ABC 123]

Josh, You might not appreciate being asked to do certain things, but do you not recognize what you did to me on this thread alone?

You pretty much told me I am a bitter ex who has a gripe about everything (I invite anyone to check to see if this be so) and that I really have no business talking about any personal experience because it all comes from impure motives and long held grudges (again, I am open to inspection on this).

And then in one place you admitted you don't really know anything about me.

I dont exactly appreciate that either, but it really is beside the point.

[Josh]

You might now appreciate being asked to do certain things, but do you not recognize what you did to me on this thread alone?

You pretty much told me I am a bitter ex who has a gripe about everything (I invite anyone to check to see if this be so) and that I really have no business talking about any personal experience because it all comes from impure motives and long held grudges (again, I am open to inspection on this).

And then in one place you admitted you don't really know anything about me.

I dont exactly appreciate that either, but it really is beside the point.

Well, your posting history so far has revolved around criticising more conservative people in general. What other conclusions are we supposed to draw?

[Grace]

The original topic of this thread, "By Thy Words", consists of someone who simply wants to find every avenue of attack against more-conservative groups. This is a hobby horse of less-conservative-people-who-are-still-conservative, and I think it's a bad one. People who are anti-Christian do the exact same thing against the Bible itself. They claim the Bible supports and promotes genocide, bigotry, rape, and many other bad things. Writing and thinking this way does not come from the Holy Spirit, but comes from a foreign spirit.

The subject of this thread is the Facebook page "By Thy Words" which pokes fun and denigrates the convictions of more conservative people. No matter what you think of Josh, I think this comment describes the Facebook page very well.

One thing "By Thy Words" got right is the title. Matthew 12:37 says "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Although I am not the judge, I fear many of the snarky, nasty comments made in the comments section of the page, are NOT justifying the people making them, but condemning them.