400 Years of African Slavery in America

[Ken]

ou have already stated that your family came to the US after the Civil War. All I am saying is that you do not speak for those of us (non-black) contributors whose families DID come to the US in the 1600's and 1700's.

What does it matter if your ancestors lived in the U.S., Europe, or Timbuktu?

A better question is why certain people so obsessed with ancestry. This seems to be a thing that people who value their ethnic heritage too highly do (conservative Mennonites do this too). Anyone who thinks 5-7 generations is something important - needs to find more important things to care about.

I find it amusing that this sentiment is coming from someone who attends churches where the fashion cues and music are studiously borrowed from 17th and 18th Century northern European traditions.

[Szdfan]

The "seven generations" came from my post. I was responding to the BBC article I gave the reference for, in which the woman being interviewed said that she was "shaken to the core" by events 7 generations back. Maybe you missed my comments about that, because no one has actually quoted my post - just the reference to seven generations was picked up on by Josh. I was not responding to or commenting on the politics of this topic, I just thought it was strange, and rather over the top, to say that one was "shaken to the core" by events that far back, and it seems you would possibly agree. So if no direct response is intended, then please drop the references to 7 generations. It makes no sense outside of a direct response to the news story I quoted. Her personal "emotional reaction" to that event 7 generations back was the focal point of her comments, so at least for her, this plays a part in her experience as a descendant of slaves. Are you maintaining that her emotions in this respect are invalid?

Thanks for clarifying, I appreciate it. Obviously, I wasn’t reading your posts carefully. I apologize.

I would not attempt to invalidate the feelings of the woman you mentioned, what I was attempting to articulate is that intergenerational trauma is deeper and more complicated than any one person’s feelings.

I wrote that hurriedly before leaving for services, and soon thought that "invalid" was a very poor choice of words. I would have turned my computer back on, but I was already on the verge of being late to leave the house. Anyway, I thought that "misplaced" would have been a better choice. I apologize, because the way I wrote that could easily sound accusatory.
I do agree that the issue is more complicated than any one person's feelings, but then others here press home the point that we need to listen to people, and really hear their expressions of how they are personally feeling hurt.

I think that if we sat down and discussed this with each other, instead of hurriedly writing posts at each other, we’d probably find more agreement than disagreement.

[Josh]

The concept of "interngenerational trauma" is a foolish one invented by the liberal-progressive-left.

At its core, it is unChristian. People need to forgive and forget whomever they think hurt their ancestors seven generations ago.

I’m not surprised that someone who harps constantly about how persecuted they are by liberals is also dismissive of other people’s trauma.

The argument that the Bible demands victims to “forgive” their oppressors is also the same tactic used to silence sex abuse survivors. Forgiveness is biblical, but it’s not simple or easy.

Josh, if you’re going to demand that other people forgive and to not bring up grievances, I think it’s fair for me to ask when you’re planning to forgive liberals or Canada?

I harbour no unforgivness for events that happened in Canada seven generations ago.

[Josh]

ou have already stated that your family came to the US after the Civil War. All I am saying is that you do not speak for those of us (non-black) contributors whose families DID come to the US in the 1600's and 1700's.

What does it matter if your ancestors lived in the U.S., Europe, or Timbuktu?

A better question is why certain people so obsessed with ancestry. This seems to be a thing that people who value their ethnic heritage too highly do (conservative Mennonites do this too). Anyone who thinks 5-7 generations is something important - needs to find more important things to care about.

You remind me of people who think that love is limited. Only in your case, care is limited.

There is plenty to occupy our minds with things going on today, including real injustices today.

Trying to unravel every injustice seven generations ago is a fool’s errand. Exactly how does doing so build the kingdom of heaven?

I suspect many people expect to get to heaven and then hope to sit and watch their enemies get judged.

[Only an Anz]

What does it matter if your ancestors lived in the U.S., Europe, or Timbuktu?

A better question is why certain people so obsessed with ancestry. This seems to be a thing that people who value their ethnic heritage too highly do (conservative Mennonites do this too). Anyone who thinks 5-7 generations is something important - needs to find more important things to care about.

You remind me of people who think that love is limited. Only in your case, care is limited.

There is plenty to occupy our minds with things going on today, including real injustices today.

Trying to unravel every injustice seven generations ago is a fool’s errand. Exactly how does doing so build the kingdom of heaven?

I suspect many people expect to get to heaven and then hope to sit and watch their enemies get judged.

Remind me why you're on a forum labeled "History"?

[Ken]

You remind me of people who think that love is limited. Only in your case, care is limited.

There is plenty to occupy our minds with things going on today, including real injustices today.

Trying to unravel every injustice seven generations ago is a fool’s errand. Exactly how does doing so build the kingdom of heaven?

I suspect many people expect to get to heaven and then hope to sit and watch their enemies get judged.

Remind me why you're on a forum labeled "History"?

He's busy digging himself a hole.

[Only an Anz]

There is plenty to occupy our minds with things going on today, including real injustices today.

Trying to unravel every injustice seven generations ago is a fool’s errand. Exactly how does doing so build the kingdom of heaven?

I suspect many people expect to get to heaven and then hope to sit and watch their enemies get judged.

Remind me why you're on a forum labeled "History"?

He's busy digging himself a hole.

Well in that case, I suppose the Christian thing to do is lend him a shovel?

[justme]

let me see if i have this right.
as i understand josh, injustices that happened 5-7 generations ago need to be forgiven and forgotten. they are no longer relevant to the present. is this statement correct?

if the same injustice happened today to you, would it still need to be forgiven and forgotten before any justice was obtained? or if it happened to your parents, which is one generation?

when does it become relevant?

[ohio jones]

The American legal apparatus for cattle slavery was created only in the time of De-Christianization

Cattle slavery still exists, and aside from a few animal rights activists nobody seems to have a beef with it. Allow me to steer you toward the term "chattel slavery", which cud be what was intended.

[Josh]

let me see if i have this right.
as i understand josh, injustices that happened 5-7 generations ago need to be forgiven and forgotten. they are no longer relevant to the present. is this statement correct?

if the same injustice happened today to you, would it still need to be forgiven and forgotten before any justice was obtained? or if it happened to your parents, which is one generation?

when does it become relevant?

Sitting around being angry about events hundreds of years ago is foolish and is also decidedly un-Christian, and leads nowhere except to wars, conflicts, and violence.

For those concerned about slavery, they should perhaps focus on modern day slavery, which is happening in far greater numbers than during America’s heyday of slavery in the 19th century. It seems especially foolish to be litigating the past whilst ignoring the atrocities of the present.