400 Years of African Slavery in America

A place to discuss history and historical events.
temporal1

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by temporal1 »

PetrChelcicky wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:32 am "Intergenerational trauma" is one of those cases where clearly defined scientific (social psychological) concepts (like "racism") are more or less deliberately misused.
"Trauma", meaning something like thrust, stroke, collision etc., is at first the sudden cause of a physical damage and can be transferred to a similarly suddenly caused psychical damage.
Now, for instance, my mother had a real trauma. Having lived in Berlin during the air-raids she was completely beside herself when she heard alarm sirens (two times each year, b/o testing reasons).

As a child I was impressed enough to become anxious when there was a plane above me.
But that was not a trauma, but "induced fear".
And my children would only have that fear now if I had insisted on telling them stories about air-raids and how their grandmother was affected by them.
But of course I haven't done that. And even if, my children would not be "traumatized", because their fear would not be the unintentional product of a sudden experience, but the intentional product by my telling them stories.

Interesting description/example.

Isn’t this just fact for all parents everywhere for all time?
My grdaughter barely knows about Pearl Harbor, and MANY historical events; i often wonder, what is enough? what is too much?
i’m 100% convinced my parents struggled with the same. what is worthwhile? what is dishonest? :shock:

no one can rightly relive the past. it’s interesting to study, to learn, to imagine. to celebrate, and to grieve.

in the end, i emphasize scriptures.
because this provides the lens i hope she chooses to view the world through. all of it. whatever she faces, to view it through scriptures, and the spirit intended therein. i recommend it for all parents. because all souls matter.
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Josh

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by Josh »

The concept of "interngenerational trauma" is a foolish one invented by the liberal-progressive-left.

At its core, it is unChristian. People need to forgive and forget whomever they think hurt their ancestors seven generations ago.
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Josh

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by Josh »

Only an Anz wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:24 pm ou have already stated that your family came to the US after the Civil War. All I am saying is that you do not speak for those of us (non-black) contributors whose families DID come to the US in the 1600's and 1700's.
What does it matter if your ancestors lived in the U.S., Europe, or Timbuktu?

A better question is why certain people so obsessed with ancestry. This seems to be a thing that people who value their ethnic heritage too highly do (conservative Mennonites do this too). Anyone who thinks 5-7 generations is something important - needs to find more important things to care about.
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Josh

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by Josh »

Only an Anz wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:26 pm"Most old texts are not relevant to anybody anymore."....I would love to hear you explain why so many of our Plain friends still read the KJV (and old TRANSLATION), or to see you justify that in Shakespeare class, for example.
I don't care much for KJV-onlyism and wouldn't defend it. And I don't see much point in teaching Shakespeare in class.

A few very old books are influential and worth learning about. Most are not and people have completely forgotten what they even were.

The Bible is always relevant to every time and place because it is not just another book.
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Szdfan

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by Szdfan »

Neto wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:01 am
Szdfan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:02 am
I don’t think we’re talking about people being “shaken by the core” — or having a strong emotional reaction to their ancestors’ suffering about what their ancestors experienced, I think we’re talking about transgenerational or intergenerational trauma, which is a lot more complex and subtle.
The "seven generations" came from my post. I was responding to the BBC article I gave the reference for, in which the woman being interviewed said that she was "shaken to the core" by events 7 generations back. Maybe you missed my comments about that, because no one has actually quoted my post - just the reference to seven generations was picked up on by Josh. I was not responding to or commenting on the politics of this topic, I just thought it was strange, and rather over the top, to say that one was "shaken to the core" by events that far back, and it seems you would possibly agree. So if no direct response is intended, then please drop the references to 7 generations. It makes no sense outside of a direct response to the news story I quoted. Her personal "emotional reaction" to that event 7 generations back was the focal point of her comments, so at least for her, this plays a part in her experience as a descendant of slaves. Are you maintaining that her emotions in this respect are invalid?
Thanks for clarifying, I appreciate it. Obviously, I wasn’t reading your posts carefully. I apologize.

I would not attempt to invalidate the feelings of the woman you mentioned, what I was attempting to articulate is that intergenerational trauma is deeper and more complicated than any one person’s feelings.
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Szdfan

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by Szdfan »

Josh wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:36 am The concept of "interngenerational trauma" is a foolish one invented by the liberal-progressive-left.

At its core, it is unChristian. People need to forgive and forget whomever they think hurt their ancestors seven generations ago.
I’m not surprised that someone who harps constantly about how persecuted they are by liberals is also dismissive of other people’s trauma.

The argument that the Bible demands victims to “forgive” their oppressors is also the same tactic used to silence sex abuse survivors. Forgiveness is biblical, but it’s not simple or easy.

Josh, if you’re going to demand that other people forgive and to not bring up grievances, I think it’s fair for me to ask when you’re planning to forgive liberals or Canada?
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Only an Anz
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:03 pm
Affiliation: ex-Eastern

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by Only an Anz »

Josh wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:39 am
Only an Anz wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:26 pm"Most old texts are not relevant to anybody anymore."....I would love to hear you explain why so many of our Plain friends still read the KJV (and old TRANSLATION), or to see you justify that in Shakespeare class, for example.
I don't care much for KJV-onlyism and wouldn't defend it. And I don't see much point in teaching Shakespeare in class.

A few very old books are influential and worth learning about. Most are not and people have completely forgotten what they even were.

The Bible is always relevant to every time and place because it is not just another book.
Shakespeare was very influential to the English language's evolution, for one thing.
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Only an Anz
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:03 pm
Affiliation: ex-Eastern

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by Only an Anz »

Josh wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:37 am
Only an Anz wrote: ↑Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:24 pm ou have already stated that your family came to the US after the Civil War. All I am saying is that you do not speak for those of us (non-black) contributors whose families DID come to the US in the 1600's and 1700's.
What does it matter if your ancestors lived in the U.S., Europe, or Timbuktu?

A better question is why certain people so obsessed with ancestry. This seems to be a thing that people who value their ethnic heritage too highly do (conservative Mennonites do this too). Anyone who thinks 5-7 generations is something important - needs to find more important things to care about.
You remind me of people who think that love is limited. Only in your case, care is limited.
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Neto

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by Neto »

Szdfan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:12 am
Neto wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:01 am
Szdfan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:02 am
I don’t think we’re talking about people being “shaken by the core” — or having a strong emotional reaction to their ancestors’ suffering about what their ancestors experienced, I think we’re talking about transgenerational or intergenerational trauma, which is a lot more complex and subtle.
The "seven generations" came from my post. I was responding to the BBC article I gave the reference for, in which the woman being interviewed said that she was "shaken to the core" by events 7 generations back. Maybe you missed my comments about that, because no one has actually quoted my post - just the reference to seven generations was picked up on by Josh. I was not responding to or commenting on the politics of this topic, I just thought it was strange, and rather over the top, to say that one was "shaken to the core" by events that far back, and it seems you would possibly agree. So if no direct response is intended, then please drop the references to 7 generations. It makes no sense outside of a direct response to the news story I quoted. Her personal "emotional reaction" to that event 7 generations back was the focal point of her comments, so at least for her, this plays a part in her experience as a descendant of slaves. Are you maintaining that her emotions in this respect are invalid?
Thanks for clarifying, I appreciate it. Obviously, I wasn’t reading your posts carefully. I apologize.

I would not attempt to invalidate the feelings of the woman you mentioned, what I was attempting to articulate is that intergenerational trauma is deeper and more complicated than any one person’s feelings.
I wrote that hurriedly before leaving for services, and soon thought that "invalid" was a very poor choice of words. I would have turned my computer back on, but I was already on the verge of being late to leave the house. Anyway, I thought that "misplaced" would have been a better choice. I apologize, because the way I wrote that could easily sound accusatory.
I do agree that the issue is more complicated than any one person's feelings, but then others here press home the point that we need to listen to people, and really hear their expressions of how they are personally feeling hurt.
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temporal1

Re: 400 Years of African Slavery in America

Post by temporal1 »

Neto:
.. I do agree that the issue is more complicated than any one person's feelings, but then others here press home the point that we need to listen to people, and really hear their expressions of how they are personally feeling hurt.

The central point of contention is when proof of “listening” is determined by commandeering human law, accessing the Public Treasury, adjusting controlling public narratives. This equates to seeking after government as all-knowing God, rather than “what did Jesus really say?”

It’s something to be aware of, because it is an effective approach, strategy taught in schools of human law. Abuse of language that is known to be comfortable and appealing, that unfortunately leads away from authentic Truth.

We tried to advise our children to ask, “Who or what is leading your leaders?” Because someone or something is.
When they are led by Truth, good fruits will follow.

Listening is important.
That part is not contested, regardless of accusations to the contrary hurled when questions arise.
“You aren’t listening, UNLESS you wholesale agree,” is common, not constructive.
Last edited by temporal1 on Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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