By Thy Words

[Soloist]

Are you fine if a church sets a standard "cape" dress length?

I struggle to see a cape dress as being a requirement. But since you ask....

I'm fine with a church setting whatever standard it decides to.

I'm fine with a church saying, you may not drive a car. I'm fine with a church saying you may not drive a tractor more than 5mph. I'm fine with a church saying you may smoke cigars but not cigarettes.(ok, not really, but I'm not gonna stop them either) I'm fine with a church setting standards on sock colour, beard length, no beard, beard required but no mustache and a bazillion other things. I just choose not to attend there.

Would I be fine if MY church set a standard on dress length? Is that your question?

Well I wanted to clarify if you were fine with a church setting specific standards are if you were opposed to extrabiblical standards. It appears to me that your primary objection is the standards replacing following Jesus which is a problem. Its easier to follow rules then it is to follow Jesus and often someone gets hurt. This doesn't make standards wrong, they should complement a walk, not subvert it.

[Signtist]

Some churches ask their members to uphold the standard as long as you are a member there. Not "'til death do us part"

[Josh]

So... are you fine with the church teaching a dress length? a sleeve length? or do those cross the line?

I'd rather they taught against skinny jeans! I don't think our church has dress length or sleeve length requirements. If we do, I've never heard of it. My wife says we don't. I don't see a need for it, actually. The church where I grew up used to complain dresses were too long. But also socks were required for modesty. I don't know. That just seems a little counter productive.

You'll be pleased to know that in revival meetings a year ago, the visiting preacher decided to bring up skinny jeans with us younger fellows. (He looked visibly pained and it was awkward.) "Young men, they just... they... they look feminine."

My closet had a bit of extra space later that evening.

[Soloist]

Ahhh… but this becomes problematic when membership is seen as synonymous with baptism and your vows to Christ. Because then leaving the church is also seen as not upholding your vows.

And it really messes with people’s minds to say that extra rules are now part of Christianity just because you agreed to them. Because then what happens when your faith grows and your understanding of Christ is no longer the same? Are you then forsaking Christ if you no longer follow those original rules you agreed to?

It’s one thing to have extra biblical rules. But when you make no allowance for people deciding to no longer follow those rules and still be followers of Christ then that’s spiritual abuse.

This is exactly why I would never join a church that would excommunicate someone who left for somewhere else. I and my wife specifically insured that you could retract your membership.

I disagree that we should take vows at all but thats another discussion entirely. As for the extra rules part of Christianity, Jesus said let your yes be yes and your no be no. If you change your mind, retract your membership/go somewhere you can support.

I dispute that asking someone to follow what they agreed to is spiritual abuse. If you don't like the rules, don't join or go somewhere else. If you do not uphold what you say you would, then your word is worthless and any spiritual growth is false. A true Christian who felt they could no longer abide by what they agreed to should find somewhere else. This may cost membership, relations and so on in some churches as you leave, the effect after you change your position could be spiritual abuse though.

[Josh]

Ahhh… but this becomes problematic when membership is seen as synonymous with baptism and your vows to Christ. Because then leaving the church is also seen as not upholding your vows.

And it really messes with people’s minds to say that extra rules are now part of Christianity just because you agreed to them. Because then what happens when your faith grows and your understanding of Christ is no longer the same? Are you then forsaking Christ if you no longer follow those original rules you agreed to?

Almost every church (even Amish ones) doesn't expect you to hold their membership standards if you transfer your membership to another church.

It’s one thing to have extra biblical rules. But when you make no allowance for people deciding to no longer follow those rules and still be followers of Christ then that’s spiritual abuse.

So, when someone decides that homosexuality is OK, is it "spiritual abuse" to point out that they are no longer a follower of Christ?

Or should their faith be allowed to "grow" into "any understanding"?

[Soloist]

Some churches ask their members to uphold the standard as long as you are a member there. Not "'til death do us part"

I would never join a church that required you say "til death do us part"
Its already too much like a marriage There are the vows and the kiss

[Josh]

Some churches ask their members to uphold the standard as long as you are a member there. Not "'til death do us part"

I would never join a church that required you say "til death do us part"
Its already too much like a marriage There are the vows and the kiss

Personally, I find this a lot better. I think the commitment of Christians to another should be for life. I don't have any plans to quit being a Christian.

[Signtist]

You'll be pleased to know that in revival meetings a year ago, the visiting preacher decided to bring up skinny jeans with us younger fellows. (He looked visibly pained and it was awkward.)

My oldest son wears skinny jeans. He's a skinny kid. My skinny jeans comment was an attempt at levity.

[Soloist]

Personally, I find this a lot better. I think the commitment of Christians to another should be for life. I don't have any plans to quit being a Christian.

This would fit with your beliefs though, I personally believe in a global body of believers and the church is a local expression of that. Vows till death to Jesus make sense, vows to a church I would draw the line on.

[Josh]

Personally, I find this a lot better. I think the commitment of Christians to another should be for life. I don't have any plans to quit being a Christian.

This would fit with your beliefs though, I personally believe in a global body of believers and the church is a local expression of that. Vows till death to Jesus make sense, vows to a church I would draw the line on.

Yes, that's why it's good people can choose the ecclesiology that they know they can commit to.

What I lack sympathy for us making a commitment and then complaining about the commitment you just made. If you don't want to be part of a church with discipline and standards, might I suggest not trying to join one? 99% of churches out there have hardly any discipline at all, and will be eager to have a new regular attender.