I’m almost at a loss for words. So… if there’s no difference between sex and romance then how does does it work to have a romantic relationship with someone but still not be sexually active until marriage? If the two are the same then Conservative christians have been selling us a pack of lies for years with their talk about importance of purity and waiting for marriage to engage in sex.
And so… I’m assuming you’re married… is there no way for you to be romantic with your wife without it being sexual? I want to stay away from personal attacks or judgements but I’m having a hard time envisioning how that would be a positive thing in a relationship.
I’d love to know if others agree with you, because it’s so far from my understanding of sexual and romantic.
I told myself to stay out of this thread... we see how well that is working
Not sure how to answer the question properly other than to say there is a difference between lust and love.
Wade wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:19 pm
Growing up an atheist my father and grandfather constantly said extremely perverted things to all of us children in front of my mom or whoever. I could right books on what perverted minds can imagine. I'm sure I could still recite some of the perverted songs my grandfather taught us at family gatherings. I know full well what viewing everything as sexual is.
When I stood up to my father that he is not allowed to do that to my children he was so furious he said he didn't want to see us ever again.
I've battled with a perverted mind for a long time. And at least in my experience the things you have repeated here is not the least bit helpful.
Some people sound no different than my father in how they joke on here... Thankful I know no ultras that think in these ways and all the more reason to quit Mennonet for good finally.
It's different counselling people through these issues and helping to focus on Christ. But to have people think they are Christians and doing the right thing by posting these things here... I'm saddened by the continued attention on such ungodly things rather than:
Philippians 4:8
[8]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Leaving all this rubbish behind I grew up with.
It sounds as though you've taken a costly stand against a long history saturated with perversion, and that is honorable, commendable, and right.
My goal in providing the two examples earlier was to push back against Soloist's comments regarding taking part of a book out of context and clarify that the snapshots of the book that were provided are not being taken out of context: the book is filled with perverted thinking.
Soloist wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:17 pm
Well this is the problem with taking pictures of a book without giving context. Also he may give more details as to his use of examples that are missing without reading the book. Either way, to condemn Anderson over his opinion without knowing the context of the actual book... I find this distasteful. Also while perhaps some of his examples are extreme, the overarching idea of communicating things without being aware is of a concern. Too often what is considered normal and okay in one setting is not in another setting. I strongly doubt he is saying these people posing are intentionally doing anything but rather trying to point out that it can be taken a certain way.
Wade wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:03 am
Christians are called to be light in following Christ. Focusing on this stuff, thinking about these things, reading this stuff, mocking and sarcasm, making weird negative generalization about labels Cory has made when untrue is not right as I understand scripture. How is any of this sharing the good news of the Kingdom of God, living with eternal principles, praying for others, and God's will?
It isn't.
I once was bitter too against ultras - and these types of things don't help to find healing. Look at your own life and be open to Christ, be obedient, be a follower, be self-denying in looking for His will, move on in doing what is right and then you'll let go and find healing.
I agree focusing on wrong ideas and mocking the people who write them isn't what we're called to. At the same time discussing and calling out harmful ideas and the people who write them is a part of what we're called to, and I hope that's the part we're doing here. Ideas have consequences, and when a book like this is positioned as guide leading people (especially young people) to truth but is filled with suggestions of how to think in perverted ways about ordinary things, it needs to be called out as harmful.
Totally agree Abbott. And I for one am beginning to think I have stayed silent too long.
Wade I am glad your experience among conservative Mennonites has been different. I really am. 30 years ago I would of echoed what you said although I know now that some of that was because I was blinded to it and not that it was not there.
However I have most certainly seen a push towards this type of thing over the last few decades. Where while we do not say it in so many words we almost take a Muslim approach to the issue. We at least imply that the average man even one filled with the spirit of God is simply not capable of living a victorious thought life. And by default we deflect the blame on to the women in our lives,
It is a bunch of rubbish and it must stop. I am a pretty normal red blooded male. I am not perfect. But when I slip up in my thought life I take responsibility. It is no one's fault but my own. And I have found that the key is to think upon good healthy things. Things that are true and honest and beautiful. If you can do that you will stop seeing every lady you come in contact with as a sex object.
Someone suggested reading the rest of the book before casting judgement. Unless someone can tell me that the context was simply saying that this approach was a wrong way of looking at the subject which I highly doubt I do not need to read the rest of the book to tell me this is all out garbage. And yes extremely hurtful particularly to young sensitive Christians.
I do not know Cory. I never met him. So this is not personal. But I can say without a doubt that if this type of thinking is continued to be allowed to grow in CM settings than the long term results will be devastating in many ways. I am not at all sure we are not already seeing some of the results.
I for one will not be quiet any more.
Most CMs are not in danger of getting Ph.Ds and then heavily promoting that men wear suspenders.
Once again, there’s a vast difference between sexual and romantic.
This is flatly untrue.
I’m almost at a loss for words. So… if there’s no difference between sex and romance then how does does it work to have a romantic relationship with someone but still not be sexually active until marriage? If the two are the same then Conservative christians have been selling us a pack of lies for years with their talk about importance of purity and waiting for marriage to engage in sex.
And so… I’m assuming you’re married… is there no way for you to be romantic with your wife without it being sexual? I want to stay away from personal attacks or judgements but I’m having a hard time envisioning how that would be a positive thing in a relationship.
I’d love to know if others agree with you, because it’s so far from my understanding of sexual and romantic.
The two always go together.
To use a rather obvious example, I would never be romantic with another man, now, would I?
Wade wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:03 am
Christians are called to be light in following Christ. Focusing on this stuff, thinking about these things, reading this stuff, mocking and sarcasm, making weird negative generalization about labels Cory has made when untrue is not right as I understand scripture. How is any of this sharing the good news of the Kingdom of God, living with eternal principles, praying for others, and God's will?
It isn't.
I once was bitter too against ultras - and these types of things don't help to find healing. Look at your own life and be open to Christ, be obedient, be a follower, be self-denying in looking for His will, move on in doing what is right and then you'll let go and find healing.
I agree focusing on wrong ideas and mocking the people who write them isn't what we're called to. At the same time discussing and calling out harmful ideas and the people who write them is a part of what we're called to, and I hope that's the part we're doing here. Ideas have consequences, and when a book like this is positioned as guide leading people (especially young people) to truth but is filled with suggestions of how to think in perverted ways about ordinary things, it needs to be called out as harmful.
Growing up an atheist my father and grandfather constantly said extremely perverted things to all of us children in front of my mom or whoever. I could right books on what perverted minds can imagine. I'm sure I could still recite some of the perverted songs my grandfather taught us at family gatherings. I know full well what viewing everything as sexual is.
When I stood up to my father that he is not allowed to do that to my children he was so furious he said he didn't want to see us ever again.
I've battled with a perverted mind for a long time. And at least in my experience the things you have repeated here is not the least bit helpful.
Some people sound no different than my father in how they joke on here... Thankful I know no ultras that think in these ways and all the more reason to quit Mennonet for good finally.
It's different counselling people through these issues and helping to focus on Christ. But to have people think they are Christians and doing the right thing by posting these things here... I'm saddened by the continued attention on such ungodly things rather than:
Philippians 4:8
[8]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Leaving all this rubbish behind I grew up with.
Just for the record. I agree with what you say here Wade.
appleman2006 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:10 pm If that is the type of thinking that is being propagated in CM circles then perhaps a bit of sarcasm is needed to wake us up. There is nothing funny about that. It literally IMO shows the workings of a reprobate mind, I am sorry. It just really made me angry.
It is the reality some of us grew up with. I'd say Cory might be on the extreme end, but the rest of By Thy Words? That's the stuff our church periodicals had in them. Oh, and God help you if you suggested supplementing the approved periodicals with something different.
Again I am sorry. I really am. But what worries me even more is how much of this type of thinking is slipping into some of our own circles.
Most CMs are not in danger of getting Ph.Ds and then heavily promoting that men wear suspenders.
Well thank goodness for small favours.
But in all seriousness and being quite familiar with how the prevailing influential political winds have traditionally blown in our culture I have to wonder just how much credibility promoting those suspenders might be giving him. And do not bother denying that. It is sad but all to true.
Most CMs are not in danger of getting Ph.Ds and then heavily promoting that men wear suspenders.
Well thank goodness for small favours.
But in all seriousness and being quite familiar with how the prevailing influential political winds have traditionally blown in our culture I have to wonder just how much credibility promoting those suspenders might be giving him. And do not bother denying that. It is sad but all to true.
Cory Anderson isn’t influential, full stop. But many other strange doctrines and philosophies are.
He’s a very odd academic (although what academic isn’t?) who feels free to promote his own ideas.
appleman2006 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:07 pm
Again I am sorry. I really am. But what worries me even more is how much of this type of thinking is slipping into some of our own circles.
Look where "our circles" came from. We bring ourselves with us, annoying as that is. I mean, you might be a charter member, but many of us are not.
Most CMs are not in danger of getting Ph.Ds and then heavily promoting that men wear suspenders.
Well thank goodness for small favours.
But in all seriousness and being quite familiar with how the prevailing influential political winds have traditionally blown in our culture I have to wonder just how much credibility promoting those suspenders might be giving him. And do not bother denying that. It is sad but all to true.
Cory Anderson isn’t influential, full stop. But many other strange doctrines and philosophies are.
He’s a very odd academic (although what academic isn’t?) who feels free to promote his own ideas.
Considering the amount I have heard him quoted even in our circles he obviously has had some influence. But I understand this book was self published which means probably none of the usual places would publish it. As I said I do not know him so if you say he has little influence presently than I will simply breath a sigh of relief.
