We don't need to be afraid of CRT

[GaryK]

There is a lot of Biblical data for addressing racism.

There is racism. There is elitism. There is Mennonism. There is a lot of isms.

The answer to all of it is simple. It is humble love. Jesus calls us to this. I am not perfect. I need reminders. I do not need a system to implement it. I just need to be reminded of who I follow.

This seems really simplistic and, well, conveniently ignores that Jesus has called us to this humble love for ages now. And yet, somehow, his words haven’t really kept professing Christ followers from being racist (or all other kinds of evil) throughout those ages. His followers seem to be supremely bad at the ‘simple’ act of following his words.

So what do you propose the answer to what you describe here is? Teaming up with secular ideologies? Professing Christ followers having not done well in following His words says much more about the followers than it does about Jesus' way not being effective. When Christ followers do follow His simple teachings, Christ's ways are effective.

[Ken]

There is racism. There is elitism. There is Mennonism. There is a lot of isms.

The answer to all of it is simple. It is humble love. Jesus calls us to this. I am not perfect. I need reminders. I do not need a system to implement it. I just need to be reminded of who I follow.

This seems really simplistic and, well, conveniently ignores that Jesus has called us to this humble love for ages now. And yet, somehow, his words haven’t really kept professing Christ followers from being racist (or all other kinds of evil) throughout those ages. His followers seem to be supremely bad at the ‘simple’ act of following his words.

So what do you propose the answer to what you describe here is? Teaming up with secular ideologies? Professing Christ followers having not done well in following His words says much more about the followers than it does about Jesus' way not being effective. When Christ followers do follow His simple teachings, Christ's ways are effective.

For example?

What church group would you cite as an example of what you preach?

[ohio jones]

Did you read the David French article I linked?

The link goes to one of the comments. Try this for the actual article:
https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/s ... keness-its

[GaryK]

This seems really simplistic and, well, conveniently ignores that Jesus has called us to this humble love for ages now. And yet, somehow, his words haven’t really kept professing Christ followers from being racist (or all other kinds of evil) throughout those ages. His followers seem to be supremely bad at the ‘simple’ act of following his words.

So what do you propose the answer to what you describe here is? Teaming up with secular ideologies? Professing Christ followers having not done well in following His words says much more about the followers than it does about Jesus' way not being effective. When Christ followers do follow His simple teachings, Christ's ways are effective.

For example?

What church group would you cite as an example of what you preach?

Any church whose focus is on biblical unity and on intentionally following Jesus’ teachings will be effective in dealing with any sin issues that arise within the church.

I can’t remember the exact amount of ethnicities within the church Voddie Bauchum was pastoring when he resigned to go to Zambia, but it was many.

[temporal1]

Did you read the David French article I linked?

The link goes to one of the comments. Try this for the actual article:
https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/s ... keness-its

Mr French is part of the problems Josh points to in this thread. in my view.
Honduras Keiser sometimes refers to DF, with his own thoughts.
The comment was not a waste of time. i often review comments to get an idea of response to news+opinion pieces.

[Ken]

So what do you propose the answer to what you describe here is? Teaming up with secular ideologies? Professing Christ followers having not done well in following His words says much more about the followers than it does about Jesus' way not being effective. When Christ followers do follow His simple teachings, Christ's ways are effective.

For example?

What church group would you cite as an example of what you preach?

Any church whose focus is on biblical unity and on intentionally following Jesus’ teachings will be effective in dealing with any sin issues that arise within the church.

I can’t remember the exact amount of ethnicities within the church Voddie Bauchum was pastoring when he resigned to go to Zambia, but it was many.

I was just curious how you define "success" or "effectiveness"

So in this case you are defining "effectiveness" based on how diverse a church is? By that criteria, most Anabaptist churches (at least in the US) would be deemed absolute failures.

[GaryK]

For example?

What church group would you cite as an example of what you preach?

Any church whose focus is on biblical unity and on intentionally following Jesus’ teachings will be effective in dealing with any sin issues that arise within the church.

I can’t remember the exact amount of ethnicities within the church Voddie Bauchum was pastoring when he resigned to go to Zambia, but it was many.

I was just curious how you define "success" or "effectiveness"

So in this case you are defining "effectiveness" based on how diverse a church is? By that criteria, most Anabaptist churches (at least in the US) would be deemed absolute failures.

I’m simply pointing out that it appears Voddie has done more than just teach about ethnic unity, his church seems to have lived it. That’s one reason I will listen to and hopefully learn from someone like him on this issue.

Racial issues within CA churches barely register on the radar as it relates to why there is very little diversity. We have a hard time attracting and keeping anyone.

[joshuabgood]

Did you read the David French article I linked?

The link goes to one of the comments. Try this for the actual article:
https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/s ... keness-its

Mr French is part of the problems Josh points to in this thread. in my view.
Honduras Keiser sometimes refers to DF, with his own thoughts.
The comment was not a waste of time. i often review comments to get an idea of response to news+opinion pieces.

And what about David Platt. Is he part of the problem too from your perspective? Not his church with the "conservative" members suing to remove him?

[Josh]

The link goes to one of the comments. Try this for the actual article:
https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/s ... keness-its

Mr French is part of the problems Josh points to in this thread. in my view.
Honduras Keiser sometimes refers to DF, with his own thoughts.
The comment was not a waste of time. i often review comments to get an idea of response to news+opinion pieces.

And what about David Platt. Is he part of the problem too from your perspective? Not his church with the "conservative" members suing to remove him?

Why does a group of conservative Mennonites need to be concerned about what other denominations are doing? David French is a warmonger who has yet to apologise for being part of killing hundreds of thousands of people in a war for fake, false reasons - and costing America over $1 trillion just in Afghanistan. I’m not interested in hearing anything he has to say about spiritual matters. He needs to repent.

David Platt is (presumably) a Baptist. Most people in my church circles think Baptists are in grave error due to some of their beliefs on salvation; we do not wish to be influenced by them. By the same token, I’m not sure I need to try to influence their internal politics.

Josh, can you stick to talking about actually Mennonite and Anabaptist things instead? And maybe look a little broader than just the most liberal wing of “conservative Anabaptism” that you inhabit? And perhaps help us understand how your agenda won’t lead to the same sorry end as MC USA has ended up in?

[temporal1]

The link goes to one of the comments. Try this for the actual article:
https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/s ... keness-its

Mr French is part of the problems Josh points to in this thread. in my view.
Honduras Keiser sometimes refers to DF, with his own thoughts.
The comment was not a waste of time. i often review comments to get an idea of response to news+opinion pieces.

And what about David Platt. Is he part of the problem too from your perspective? Not his church with the "conservative" members suing to remove him?

i don’t know anything about the SBC or Mr Platt.
i was surprised to learn VB intentionally joined SBC (for godly reasons) and was there for years.
i’m new to VB, only having heard of him on this forum. i appreciate what i’ve learned. i’ve just scatched the surface.

i’m interested in GaryK’s views (on everything) - altho he does not post frequently, i’ve read enough to respect him as a dedicated follower of Jesus, walking the talk. in this thread, i understand GK and VB to be on much the same path, VB has done more in the public arena - but neither men, nor others on this forum and/or elsewhere, contributing with everything they have to serve the Kingdom to come of Jesus Christ, get any fair level of notice in the public arena.

there are the noisy ones. there are those that do the heavy lifting. the human condition, right?

very recently, i indulged in a little fantasy thought about relocating to Zambia, to attend VB’s church. (no longer SBC, i believe.)
my soc sec would go much further there.

on this forum i’m most interested in CM views+discussions. real life people+opinions. on every topic.
there are valuable voices here. what blessings can be found here.

i agree with GaryK (and Chesterton) authentic Christianity works when put into action. for everyone. full stop.

it’s so easy to be distracted. for me as much as any. peace does not sell copy.

when i sense clarity of purpose in others, i rejoice. i’m grateful for those not in spotlights. some could be! if they compromised.

Dr Alveda King is one example of a woman who could have been, and could be, a major media darling.
She goes along faithfully and barely noticed. Between her and her uncle, she may be the more worthy one. crickets.

It’s the under the radar folks doing the heavy lifting who really make the world go ‘round. imho.
While the noise goes on+on.