Amish and Mennonites and others can be either of these things.
Mennonite is a huge and diverse term. I grew up Mennonite.
But how many Amish or old order type congregations would welcome a couple like myself with a husband who is a public school science teacher and a wife who is a doctor? Not many I would suspect.
In any event, this really isn’t about me. I made the point that, in my opinion, plain churches that have a fairly restrictive notion of acceptable professions can amplify wealth and power imbalances within the church as a result. Especially if those sorts of professions like farming and trades like cabinetry and furniture making can be difficult and capital intensive to break into as a owner rather than an employee. It is something I have seen in my own extended family.
You clearly disagree and that’s fine.
The gap between the rich and the poor is far far worse in the world. That’s why I reject these criticisms of Amish of somehow having an unfair society.
Amish don’t have billionaires going to their finance or tech empires whilst dodging homeless beggars on the street. The world does exactly that.
Amish and Mennonites and others can be either of these things.
Mennonite is a huge and diverse term. I grew up Mennonite.
But how many Amish or old order type congregations would welcome a couple like myself with a husband who is a public school science teacher and a wife who is a doctor? Not many I would suspect.
In any event, this really isn’t about me. I made the point that, in my opinion, plain churches that have a fairly restrictive notion of acceptable professions can amplify wealth and power imbalances within the church as a result. Especially if those sorts of professions like farming and trades like cabinetry and furniture making can be difficult and capital intensive to break into as a owner rather than an employee. It is something I have seen in my own extended family.
You clearly disagree and that’s fine.
The gap between the rich and the poor is far far worse in the world. That’s why I reject these criticisms of Amish of somehow having an unfair society.
Amish don’t have billionaires going to their finance or tech empires whilst dodging homeless beggars on the street. The world does exactly that.
I did not say the Amish have an unfair society. And I did not say they have greater wealth disparity than what exists in the outside world. I simply made the comment that when you have a society in which there are certain preferred professions and those then to be highly capital-intensive businesses like farming, then it can produce inequities or an imbalance between the old established families and newcomers. I don't think that is an unfair comment. It is what I have observed. In fact it is probably an effective way to weed-out seeker types because it can be pretty hard to break into that lifestyle if you weren't born to it and that is part of the reason why.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Mennonite is a huge and diverse term. I grew up Mennonite.
But how many Amish or old order type congregations would welcome a couple like myself with a husband who is a public school science teacher and a wife who is a doctor? Not many I would suspect.
In any event, this really isn’t about me. I made the point that, in my opinion, plain churches that have a fairly restrictive notion of acceptable professions can amplify wealth and power imbalances within the church as a result. Especially if those sorts of professions like farming and trades like cabinetry and furniture making can be difficult and capital intensive to break into as a owner rather than an employee. It is something I have seen in my own extended family.
You clearly disagree and that’s fine.
The gap between the rich and the poor is far far worse in the world. That’s why I reject these criticisms of Amish of somehow having an unfair society.
Amish don’t have billionaires going to their finance or tech empires whilst dodging homeless beggars on the street. The world does exactly that.
I did not say the Amish have an unfair society. And I did not say they have greater wealth disparity than what exists in the outside world. I simply made the comment that when you have a society in which there are certain preferred professions and those then to be highly capital-intensive businesses like farming, then it can produce inequities or an imbalance between the old established families and newcomers. I don't think that is an unfair comment. It is what I have observed. In fact it is probably an effective way to weed-out seeker types because it can be pretty hard to break into that lifestyle if you weren't born to it and that is part of the reason why.
Have you ever spoken to any “newcomers” to an Amish group?
The gap between the rich and the poor is far far worse in the world. That’s why I reject these criticisms of Amish of somehow having an unfair society.
Amish don’t have billionaires going to their finance or tech empires whilst dodging homeless beggars on the street. The world does exactly that.
I did not say the Amish have an unfair society. And I did not say they have greater wealth disparity than what exists in the outside world. I simply made the comment that when you have a society in which there are certain preferred professions and those then to be highly capital-intensive businesses like farming, then it can produce inequities or an imbalance between the old established families and newcomers. I don't think that is an unfair comment. It is what I have observed. In fact it is probably an effective way to weed-out seeker types because it can be pretty hard to break into that lifestyle if you weren't born to it and that is part of the reason why.
Have you ever spoken to any “newcomers” to an Amish group?
You make a lot of conjectures.
Yes, actually I have. Who got weary of the poverty and left.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
I feel the need to point up that a simple thread of inquiry about the Holdemans is being bunny trailed by the individuals with a personal agenda.
I think Josh, as the resident Holdeman member has the right to answer this thread; all others who are not Holdeman need to back away from the topic.
Soloist wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:39 pm Most of this I think Josh can answer, but they are welcoming like most Mennonite churches. My experience, while strange... I was very welcome. The key thing I cannot accept at this point is the one true church mentality. You would be required to be baptized by them to join them just like some German Baptist groups.
I can respect them and I have never had any negative experiences with them.
Which people who joined and left Amish groups did you know?
One of my young cousins. Her mother (my aunt) died when she was young and her father was abusive and absent and also now dead. She married into an Amish church in Indiana some years ago. I think her husband was either adopted by an Amish family or was a foster kid. I’m not sure which. But apparently he never completely fit in. After a few years they left in frustration, tired of the poverty and lack of opportunity. She was working long hours for her in-laws store for basically very little money. Her husband was working on some Amish crew that was blowing foam insulation into old houses. After leaving she went to college, got a nursing degree and they now live somewhere in the far north suburbs of Chicago. He now works as an independent trucker. They are much happier with their lives. I’ve only recently reconnected with them.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh,
Are there any profession's or Jobs the holdemans would ask me to quit in order to join. say im an electrical engineer or computer programmer or own rental properties.
Also, i don't want to ask because its not really too important but im curious, could you see the Holdeman church universal authorities mandating a COVID vaccine for all members or something like that.
theodoreclaudius wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:11 am
Josh,
Are there any profession's or Jobs the holdemans would ask me to quit in order to join. say im an electrical engineer or computer programmer or own rental properties.
Also, i don't want to ask because its not really too important but im curious, could you see the Holdeman church universal authorities mandating a COVID vaccine for all members or something like that.
If any of the Conservative Mennonites did that, you would be looking at a split. they would be the same. Too much opinion is held on vaccines in general for that to go well.
As for professions, I don't think those three would be an issue, but for example being a police officer or in the military would be a serious problem.
theodoreclaudius wrote: ↑Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:11 am
Josh,
Are there any profession's or Jobs the holdemans would ask me to quit in order to join. say im an electrical engineer or computer programmer or own rental properties.
Also, i don't want to ask because its not really too important but im curious, could you see the Holdeman church universal authorities mandating a COVID vaccine for all members or something like that.
There are some professions that wouldn’t be a good fit, but there are plenty of engineers and computer types of people.
I would not see a universal covid vaccine mandate. Two years ago, there was debate about (state-required) vaccines for schoolchildren. This debate basically ended with the covid vaccine situation, as the sentiment in the church has soured against state mandated vaccines.
I should note there are no “church universal authorities”. There are just the ministers at each congregation. To actually mandate something, most the ministers at every conference would need to agree on it.