Coronavirus Outbreak

[RZehr]

What I'm waiting and wanting to see, is data on natural immunity from people who had the disease, vs. people who have the shots. Not simply people with the shot, vs. people without the shot. I already believe the shot is effective. But is it more or less, or the same as people who have already had the virus?

[Dan Z]

It looks like, from a few preliminary studies I've seen in reputable journals, that the protection rate for those who have had COVID is north of 80% thus far - almost as good as the vaccine.

questions remain about how long the protection will last - 1) for the vaccinated, 2) for those who have recovered who have had the vaccine, and 3) for the unvaccinated who have recovered from COVID. Especially of interest is which group will respond most positively to future variants.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 0/fulltext

[RZehr]

The purity of "science".

On February 19, 2020, the Lancet published a letter signed by 27 scientists that stated: "We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin...and overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife,” adding: "Conspiracy theories do nothing but create fear, rumours, and prejudice that jeopardise our global collaboration in the fight against this virus." The letter has been criticized for having a chilling effect on scientific research and the scientific community by implying that scientists who "bring up the lab-leak theory...are doing the work of conspiracy theorists";[23][24][25] the statement was deemed to have "effectively ended the debate over COVID-19’s origins before it began".[24] Further criticism of the letter was focused on the fact that, according to emails obtained through FOIA, members involved in producing the letter concealed their involvement "to creat[e] the impression of scientific unanimity" and failed to disclose conflicts of interest.[24]

I like science. I like the scientific method, and I believe it to be solid and sound. But I don't think science is pure and unbiased anymore, nor intellectually honest and open anymore. It is too much about that sweet government funding, and getting published, and avoiding unpopular beliefs.

This is about how some people take science.
Psalms of Science (for the Non-Christian):

The law of science is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of science is sure, making wise the simple.
The statutes of science are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of science is pure, enlightening the eyes.
The fear of science is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of Science are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O SCIENCE, my strength, and my redeemer.

[Ken]

The purity of "science".

On February 19, 2020, the Lancet published a letter signed by 27 scientists that stated: "We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin...and overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife,” adding: "Conspiracy theories do nothing but create fear, rumours, and prejudice that jeopardise our global collaboration in the fight against this virus." The letter has been criticized for having a chilling effect on scientific research and the scientific community by implying that scientists who "bring up the lab-leak theory...are doing the work of conspiracy theorists";[23][24][25] the statement was deemed to have "effectively ended the debate over COVID-19’s origins before it began".[24] Further criticism of the letter was focused on the fact that, according to emails obtained through FOIA, members involved in producing the letter concealed their involvement "to creat[e] the impression of scientific unanimity" and failed to disclose conflicts of interest.[24]

I like science. I like the scientific method, and I believe it to be solid and sound. But I don't think science is pure and unbiased anymore, nor intellectually honest and open anymore. It is too much about that sweet government funding, and getting published, and avoiding unpopular beliefs.

This is about how some people take science.
Psalms of Science (for the Non-Christian):

The law of science is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of science is sure, making wise the simple.
The statutes of science are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of science is pure, enlightening the eyes.
The fear of science is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of Science are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O SCIENCE, my strength, and my redeemer.

But of course the example you cite above isn’t really about science. It is about a handful of scientists straying outside of their lane and getting involved in politics. There are literally hundreds of thousands of scientists in the US alone. So getting a handful to sign onto to something is a pretty low bar. I don’t know the context or purpose of that Lancet letter. Or what conspiracy theories they were responding to during the origin of the pandemic? I think the actual lesson here is that just like politicians can be made to look like fools when they stray out of their lane into science, scientists can be made to look like fools when they stray out of their lane into politics.

But at the same time, is there any actual scientific evidence, even today, that Covid was a man-made virus? I can buy that it was a natural virus that may have escaped from some lab. But I haven’t seen compelling evidence that it is some sort of artificial virus that was actually created in a lab.

[RZehr]

I have no dog in the fight about the virus origin.
Scientist abusing their positions to become political is almost as bad as preachers doing it.

What is more serious here, is that the supposedly highly esteemed rag, the Lancet, went ahead and published it. Why? Because of politics. Just like so many liberal institutions who have lost their bearings in the heat of the moment, and have lost their credibility by letting the curtain slip showing who they are. They are doing the same thing as the far right conspiracy theorists. Just making claim backed only by their reputation, not scientific, objective facts. Their veneer is thin. Last spring was the worst season of politics ever, and the Lancet stumbled.

[mike]

According to CNN, black and Hispanic communities are seeing disparities in terms of vaccinations.

Black and Hispanic communities have been particularly hard hit by the pandemic. About 29% of Covid-19 infections in the US were among Hispanic people, more than their 17% share of the total population — but Hispanic people have only received 15% of vaccinations. Similarly, more than 11% of Covid-19 cases have occurred among Black people, who make up 9% of all vaccinations.

I wonder why that is.

White Americans make up about 50% of all US Covid-19 cases, but more than 60% of those vaccinated.

One might be tempted to think that white Americans are hogging all the vaccines, except for the fact that by now the vaccines have been widely available for anybody for some time. Is there a lack of access in minority communities? Or do these groups tend to be more skeptical of vaccines than whites? Or do they just not care as much?

[Ken]

According to CNN, black and Hispanic communities are seeing disparities in terms of vaccinations.

Black and Hispanic communities have been particularly hard hit by the pandemic. About 29% of Covid-19 infections in the US were among Hispanic people, more than their 17% share of the total population — but Hispanic people have only received 15% of vaccinations. Similarly, more than 11% of Covid-19 cases have occurred among Black people, who make up 9% of all vaccinations.

I wonder why that is.

White Americans make up about 50% of all US Covid-19 cases, but more than 60% of those vaccinated.

One might be tempted to think that white Americans are hogging all the vaccines, except for the fact that by now the vaccines have been widely available for anybody for some time. Is there a lack of access in minority communities? Or do these groups tend to be more skeptical of vaccines than whites? Or do they just not care as much?

A significant portion of the Hispanic population is undocumented. They are traditionally excluded from most public health care in the US. And probably suspicious of showing up to some government-run vaccination site where they take your name and other information. Plus, I don’t I know how much COVID stuff online is actually translated into Spanish.Like the vaccine sign-up web sites.

Probably some of it is also due to poverty. Poor people are just less likely to get vaccinated than the wealthy. And a higher percentage of the Black and Hispanic populations are poor. I wouldn’t be surprised, for example, if you looked at Black and Hispanic Americans earning over $100,000/year and found that their vaccination rates were similar to whites with the same incomes.

[steve-in-kville]

(ETA- Ken and I must have been typing at the same time!)

One might be tempted to think that white Americans are hogging all the vaccines, except for the fact that by now the vaccines have been widely available for anybody for some time. Is there a lack of access in minority communities? Or do these groups tend to be more skeptical of vaccines than whites? Or do they just not care as much?

Here in our area, there were a lot of rumors that the vaccine contained birth control to limit the hispanic community. And one may laugh at that, but I was amazed how many hispanic people I know (and worked with!) actually bought into that. At one point, there were case workers going door-to-door explaining the "facts" and encouraging them to get vaccinated.

To add context to the above, for a small city like Lebanon, we've had a lot of protests, marches and such at the courthouse the last few years in regards to racial inequality. And its spreading to nearby suburban communities.

So I totally see how the hispanic population would believe such a thing.

[Robert]

According to CNN, black and Hispanic communities are seeing disparities in terms of vaccinations.

Black and Hispanic communities have been particularly hard hit by the pandemic. About 29% of Covid-19 infections in the US were among Hispanic people, more than their 17% share of the total population — but Hispanic people have only received 15% of vaccinations. Similarly, more than 11% of Covid-19 cases have occurred among Black people, who make up 9% of all vaccinations.

I wonder why that is.

White Americans make up about 50% of all US Covid-19 cases, but more than 60% of those vaccinated.

One might be tempted to think that white Americans are hogging all the vaccines, except for the fact that by now the vaccines have been widely available for anybody for some time. Is there a lack of access in minority communities? Or do these groups tend to be more skeptical of vaccines than whites? Or do they just not care as much?

CNN links and quotes are not allowed on forum at this time. Please use other sources.

[mike]

According to CNN, black and Hispanic communities are seeing disparities in terms of vaccinations.

Black and Hispanic communities have been particularly hard hit by the pandemic. About 29% of Covid-19 infections in the US were among Hispanic people, more than their 17% share of the total population — but Hispanic people have only received 15% of vaccinations. Similarly, more than 11% of Covid-19 cases have occurred among Black people, who make up 9% of all vaccinations.

I wonder why that is.

White Americans make up about 50% of all US Covid-19 cases, but more than 60% of those vaccinated.

One might be tempted to think that white Americans are hogging all the vaccines, except for the fact that by now the vaccines have been widely available for anybody for some time. Is there a lack of access in minority communities? Or do these groups tend to be more skeptical of vaccines than whites? Or do they just not care as much?

CNN links and quotes are not allowed on forum at this time. Please use other sources.

I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware of that. If you want to replace the links with one pointing to one of the following excellent scholarly research sites I would appreciate it.

https://feeds.aarp.org/health/condition ... ?_amp=true

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... -to-fix-it

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ities.html

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/ ... den-491973