Can we make MN less hostile?

[Sudsy]

I need to be less reactive. I need to state my opinions and move on. I need to not be triggered, and if I am, be honest and open about it. I need to keep working at this. I need to elevate others more.

I like that Robert and will add my own pledge to keep working on my own responses as a Christian -

I need to -

1. Turn the other cheek when I feel slapped
2. Try to use scripture references for my views
3. Try to stick to the OP and not bunny trail
4. Apologize openly when I should
5. And basically test my posts against the fruit of the Spirit before I hit the send button

Regarding the last one I have made posts, sometimes quite long, and reading them over before sending I sensed this was my flesh/ego responding and backed them out. Others I didn't read them over first and later realized this was the flesh/ego responding. This is when I need to humble myself and admit to this carnal response.

This forum can be looked at as an opportunity for spiritual growth and try to use it in a God honoring way. It is up to each one of us to mature spiritually or not with the opportunities that arise.

[MaxPC]

I need to be less reactive. I need to state my opinions and move on. I need to not be triggered, and if I am, be honest and open about it. I need to keep working at this. I need to elevate others more.

I like that Robert and will add my own pledge to keep working on my own responses as a Christian -

I need to -

1. Turn the other cheek when I feel slapped
2. Try to use scripture references for my views
3. Try to stick to the OP and not bunny trail
4. Apologize openly when I should
5. And basically test my posts against the fruit of the Spirit before I hit the send button

Regarding the last one I have made posts, sometimes quite long, and reading them over before sending I sensed this was my flesh/ego responding and backed them out. Others I didn't read them over first and later realized this was the flesh/ego responding. This is when I need to humble myself and admit to this carnal response.

This forum can be looked at as an opportunity for spiritual growth and try to use it in a God honoring way. It is up to each one of us to mature spiritually or not with the opportunities that arise.

Amen, Sudsy.

If I may, allow me to add that when Robert and the rest have addressed these particular problems to this person regarding problematic and repetitive behaviors, these good people (Robert, et al.) did indeed follow Matthew 18:15-17:

15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Of course this is my perception of my reading of the exchange as a whole. YMMV

[steve-in-kville]

Not following the last few pages of this thread all that super close... but there are times when typing replies here on MN that I imagine myself having a pleasant meal with everyone on the forum. There are times sarcasm plays in, and maybe some sharp-ish responses are required. But I want to leave here without fear someone is gonna cut the brake lines on my car or slip something in my drink.

I'm not always successful at this, BTW.

[Sudsy]

I need to be less reactive. I need to state my opinions and move on. I need to not be triggered, and if I am, be honest and open about it. I need to keep working at this. I need to elevate others more.

i

I like that Robert and will add my own pledge to keep working on my own responses as a Christian -

I need to -

1. Turn the other cheek when I feel slapped
2. Try to use scripture references for my views
3. Try to stick to the OP and not bunny trail
4. Apologize openly when I should
5. And basically test my posts against the fruit of the Spirit before I hit the send button

Regarding the last one I have made posts, sometimes quite long, and reading them over before sending I sensed this was my flesh/ego responding and backed them out. Others I didn't read them over first and later realized this was the flesh/ego responding. This is when I need to humble myself and admit to this carnal response.

This forum can be looked at as an opportunity for spiritual growth and try to use it in a God honoring way. It is up to each one of us to mature spiritually or not with the opportunities that arise.

Amen, Sudsy.

If I may, allow me to add that when Robert and the rest have addressed these particular problems to this person regarding problematic and repetitive behaviors, these good people (Robert, et al.) did indeed follow Matthew 18:15-17:

15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Of course this is my perception of my reading of the exchange as a whole. YMMV

That is an interesting text and one that I wonder just how it can be applied to an open forum. Can it be applied in the same way as it could be applied to a local church of believers and if so, how might that be carried out in practise ?

For instance, this forum has a 'foe' option, which although I don't care for the term, allows one to, in a logged on mode, ignore what another person posts. This provides individual forum members the means to not enter into conversations with another person. To me, this would be like the verse that says that I can chose ('to you') withdraw conversations with this person until you see (in read mode) they have repented (turned away from their practise).

How we treat one another in an open forum where the unsaved can view is different to me than how we would treat brothers and sisters in a local church community. It can be viewed as 'ganging up' on someone and the words used to point to the 'sinful ways' may not read as very loving. I'm not convinced that we can treat this problem quite the same as we would in a local church where a person represents the beliefs of that church.

To me, if people just refused to discuss things with me and ignored my questions by using this 'foe' feature, I would need to change my ways or go elsewhere. If moderators give me warnings on how I discuss things and I ignore these warnings they can take away my posting ability. My guess is that they would prefer we learn to get along using the features available rather than they having to 'excommunicate' someone from the forum.

These are my thoughts on how we might use the means we already have to make the forum less hostile and I would love to hear from others how we practically can work toward this goal and at the same time be reflecting the fruit of the Spirit.

[MaxPC]

If I may, allow me to add that when Robert and the rest have addressed these particular problems to this person regarding problematic and repetitive behaviors, these good people (Robert, et al.) did indeed follow Matthew 18:15-17:

15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Of course this is my perception of my reading of the exchange as a whole. YMMV

That is an interesting text and one that I wonder just how it can be applied to an open forum. Can it be applied in the same way as it could be applied to a local church of believers and if so, how might that be carried out in practise ?

For instance, this forum has a 'foe' option, which although I don't care for the term, allows one to, in a logged on mode, ignore what another person posts. This provides individual forum members the means to not enter into conversations with another person. To me, this would be like the verse that says that I can chose ('to you') withdraw conversations with this person until you see (in read mode) they have repented (turned away from their practise).

How we treat one another in an open forum where the unsaved can view is different to me than how we would treat brothers and sisters in a local church community. It can be viewed as 'ganging up' on someone and the words used to point to the 'sinful ways' may not read as very loving. I'm not convinced that we can treat this problem quite the same as we would in a local church where a person represents the beliefs of that church.

To me, if people just refused to discuss things with me and ignored my questions by using this 'foe' feature, I would need to change my ways or go elsewhere. If moderators give me warnings on how I discuss things and I ignore these warnings they can take away my posting ability. My guess is that they would prefer we learn to get along using the features available rather than they having to 'excommunicate' someone from the forum.

These are my thoughts on how we might use the means we already have to make the forum less hostile and I would love to hear from others how we practically can work toward this goal and at the same time be reflecting the fruit of the Spirit.

I can understand your position. I do not see that Scripture as saying to kick someone off of the forum (unless of course the person does advocate violence). As well, I do not resonate nor agree with the "ganging up" perception; rather I have seen such correction that has taken place here as actually drawing people to a group; these new people have themselves been victimised by such behaviors in other forums and places. They are glad to see that there is a line drawn against such behaviors.

Several among my acquaintances are tired of double standards and would like to see more consistency regarding behavioral expectations and behavioral standards. On this forum the standards involve simple courtesy and a willingness to listen without pushing an agenda into every conversation and without the relentless need to "win" in a debate or a discussion. It truly is an achievable objective to maintain harmony (in my experiences both here and elsewhere in my life).

The lives of Christians have always been in the proverbial fishbowl. If we do not practise the precepts of our faith consistently whether here on the forum or within our communities, then our witness becomes weak and just another social fad.

That said, I do think there is a point in such dealings that ignoring the maladaptive behaviors no longer works regardless of the venue. The message is not getting through to the person; that others do not seek conversation with him as long as his behaviors persist. That is the point in which the next level of intervention is to take place. As I see it, that is what has occurred here on the forum as recommended by verses 16 and 17. The Scripture above gives an example of increased levels of interventions when the person does not amend, apologise nor improve.

Those procedurals are designed for any situation involving a brother in the Christian life regardless of venue. The private intervention has taken place per the Scriptures. When that did not effect a change, "two or three" or more have "established evidence". Rather than brushing the behaviors under the rug, a call to accountability is for the health of the person is perpetrating the behaviors as well as an opportunity for the group to try to help that person amend his ways. Such are my experiences of both that Scripture; the events here (and elsewhere in my life); and the praxis of the accountability and its fruits for emotionally healthy Christian living.

[Sudsy]

Thanks Max for sharing your thoughts, beliefs and experiences on the subject. Food for thought. I guess time will tell if we get the results we are hoping for and if this venue is unique or not in controlling behaviors. I hope actions taken will be rooted in a goal for reconciliation and not vengeance. God help us to be reflective of love one for another.

[ken_sylvania]

Go ahead Boot, do it. (and encourage Ken to do likewise, that will give Josh and other social conservatives less to react to).

Has it ever crossed your mind that possibly people get tired of your "know-it-all" demeaning attitude?

Can you not see how partisan your posts are? You load your post up with all kind of partisan and tribal language, then claim you want to be less hostile and more Christ centered. Very inconsistent and inflammatory.

then do it boot.

Maybe MN would be less hostile if members didn't keep condemning other members and instead addressed the ideas expressed.

Would you have any interest in addressing the ideas expressed rather than condemning us????

[Sudsy]

Not following the last few pages of this thread all that super close... but there are times when typing replies here on MN that I imagine myself having a pleasant meal with everyone on the forum. There are times sarcasm plays in, and maybe some sharp-ish responses are required. But I want to leave here without fear someone is gonna cut the brake lines on my car or slip something in my drink.

I'm not always successful at this, BTW.

Hi Steve. I have a question on the phrase 'maybe some sharp-ish responses required'. One of the characteristics of the fruit of the Spirit is gentleness and Philippians 4:5 says - 'Let your gentle spirit [your graciousness, unselfishness, mercy, tolerance, and patience] be known to all people. The Lord is near.' AMP

So, I'm wondering how a 'sharp-ish' response fits in if this is a kind of open rebuke when we are to be known as gentle people ? Any thoughts on this ?

Just to add another verse Gal 6:1 - 'Brothers, if anyone is caught in any sin, you who are spiritual [that is, you who are responsive to the guidance of the Spirit] are to restore such a person in a spirit of gentleness [not with a sense of superiority or self-righteousness], keeping a watchful eye on yourself, so that you are not tempted as well.'

[MaxPC]

Thanks Max for sharing your thoughts, beliefs and experiences on the subject. Food for thought. I guess time will tell if we get the results we are hoping for and if this venue is unique or not in controlling behaviors.

For seven and a half years I have had the privilege of knowing the good people of this forum. I wish the best for you all; that you will be able to discuss topics unmolested.

I hope actions taken will be rooted in a goal for reconciliation and not vengeance. God help us to be reflective of love one for another.

Quite: my thoughts likewise as that would be ideal.

[JimFoxvog]

Go ahead Boot, do it. (and encourage Ken to do likewise, that will give Josh and other social conservatives less to react to).

Has it ever crossed your mind that possibly people get tired of your "know-it-all" demeaning attitude?

Can you not see how partisan your posts are? You load your post up with all kind of partisan and tribal language, then claim you want to be less hostile and more Christ centered. Very inconsistent and inflammatory.

then do it boot.

Maybe MN would be less hostile if members didn't keep condemning other members and instead addressed the ideas expressed.

Would you have any interest in addressing the ideas expressed rather than condemning us????

I didn't see this as condemnation, but that's fair.
I don't think there is a "know-it-all" demeaning attitude.
I do not think the posts are partisan.
Boot would be a better one to address this, but I expect he'd say he'd like examples of this purported misbehavior; I certainly think examples would be useful to address these charges.