What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

[Bootstrap]

In fact, I was quoting someone saying Buice's article was not what it claimed to be about but was really about something else, and then preaching to others about how not taking someone at their word is unChristian.

If I take you seriously, I have to assume that every accusation someone makes in an article like this is true, because pointing out obvious flaws in it would be casting shade on the author.

That's not the right way to treat accusations.

But if you try to take this article seriously, the accusations fall apart. And it's not really our jurisdiction anyway. The best thing for this thread is to let it die - at this point it is turning into a content-free personal squabble anyways.

[Falco Underhill]

I think he did. I quoted from his article and pointed out issues with things he had said. I did not attack him personally or try to dig up dirt on him, I addressed his arguments. For instance, I think he badly misrepresents Hegel and the teachings of certain other people. But I focused on what these others had taught.

You flat out said Hegel was just a red herring in that article, that it was really about Beth Moore and others. That is certainly an example of twisting the meaning of his words and judging him based on what you thought he meant. Also an intentional changing of the subject.

I think Hegel is a red herring here. I think this is about people like Russell Moore, Beth Moore (not related), and J.D. Greear.

I was defending people whose teachings had been misrepresented by Buice and others. Frankly, the best thing for us to do is not try to meddle in the internal affairs of the SBC, but if this stuff has to be a focus on our Mennonite social media, at least we can try to set the record straight for some people who are falsely accused.

Only it was yourself who was primarily responsible for making those people the focus in this thread in the first place. Nobody mentioned it until YOU claimed it was all "about people like Russell Moore, Beth Moore (not related), and J.D. Greear."

Take responsibility for your own part in making Beth Moore the focus of this thread in the first place and start practicing what you preach.

[Bootstrap]

You flat out said Hegel was just a red herring in that article, that it was really about Beth Moore and others. That is certainly an example of twisting the meaning of his words and judging him based on what you thought he meant. Also an intentional changing of the subject.

Buice is twisting Hegel into something Hegel is not, creating a conspiracy theory, and saying this:

Such a purposeful and tactical move is the result of what we know as the Hegelian dialectic.

Suffice it to say, if people within the SBC were confused by CRT/I and Marxism, the teachings of Hegel will cause their heads to spin even more. Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (1770-1831) was a German philosopher who pulled from Immanuel Kant and developed a dialectical approach that can be used to transition culture, people, and thought in a preferred direction.

That's a flat-out lie. This is not at all what a Hegelian Dialectic is. And the whole purpose of the article is to throw shade on others that he names, people who do not associate themselves with either Critical Race Theory or Marxism or the nonsense in the paragraph I just quoted.

There is no way on earth to take that article seriously as an article about Hegel. And there's no reasonable way to ignore the other things it is trying to do. I mean, seriously, do you believe this is an academic article about Hegel?

[Falco Underhill]

Buice is twisting Hegel into something Hegel is not, creating a conspiracy theory

1. Whether or not Buice was "twisting Hegel into something he was not" is another issue. You claimed it was a red herring and that article was really about certain people.

That was an assertion which you can't justify other than an appeal to your own suspicions. Hardly giving Buice's words the courtesy you insisted on giving to Beth Moore.

That's a flat-out lie. This is not at all what a Hegelian Dialectic is.

Now you're calling Buice a liar for saying what I'm sure he sincerely believes. This is hardly an example of extending grace to someone with whom you disagree, which you constantly insist others do when they disagree with people you support.

the whole purpose of the article is to throw shade on others that he names, people who do not associate themselves with either Critical Race Theory or Marxism or the nonsense in the paragraph I just quoted.

And you call Buice a conspiracy theorist! This is just the pot calling the kettle black.

There is no way on earth to take that article seriously as an article about Hegel. And there's no reasonable way to ignore the other things it is trying to do. I mean, seriously, do you believe this is an academic article about Hegel?

You didn't have to rail on him as a liar and a conspiracy theorist to disagree with him, but of course that would require an ability to move past the hatred expressed in your polemics -- exactly why some people can't take your comments about Hegel seriously. You appear blinded by your own hatred.

How about putting your tweezers down long enough to take the beam out of your own eye first, Boot?

[Bootstrap]

Falco, we clearly disagree on this. I think I'm being true to my own standards. They may not be the same as yours. I also think I am being very careful with facts and the truth.

By my standards, a teacher with this much influence must not twist the truth or make false allegations to tear down other leaders, especially when it might be to his advantage to do so. If he did not know that he got it wrong at the time, he should have done his homework. If it was a mistake, surely he knows by now and has had time to correct his error.

By my standards, misinformation that can destroy the careers of biblical teachers deserves strict scrutiny. And if we don't expose obvious aggressive falsehood, the goon squads win.

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

I don't see any particular value to batting this back and forth any more. Neither of us is saying anything new. You may have the last word.

[Falco Underhill]

By my standards, a teacher with this much influence must not twist the truth or make false allegations to tear down other leaders, especially when it might be to his advantage to do so. If he did not know that he got it wrong at the time, he should have done his homework. If it was a mistake, surely he knows by now and has had time to correct his error.

Not sure what you're referring to about him "twisting the truth." If you're referring to his reference to Hegelian Dialectics again i tried to address that in your thread about What is Hegelian Dialectics? You'll see I don't consider anything he said to be a twisting of the truth. Even if you still don't agree with me, your characterization of him being a liar and conspiracy theorist for saying it was way off base.

Labeling (name calling) and a refusal to treat someone's words with respect is a form of railing/reviling, which, as you say, is "unbecoming of a Christian." It is certainly no Christian standard. (Btw, I speak from personal experience and have to check it in myself. Railing is always of the flesh and irrational.)

By my standards, misinformation that can destroy the careers of biblical teachers deserves strict scrutiny. And if we don't expose obvious aggressive falsehood, the goon squads win.

Again, I saw none of that in the article and certainly don't follow Buice on Twitter or anywhere else. You brought the personal stuff up in the thread yourself, and when you're baiting people to make a remark just so you can then criticize them for it, you kind of lose any credibility for acting righteously indignant about it and suggestingtheir part of "goon squad."

Okay, well, I'm done if you are. Hopefully, I've said something beneficial here.

[JimFoxvog]

Buice is twisting Hegel into something Hegel is not, creating a conspiracy theory, and saying this:

Such a purposeful and tactical move is the result of what we know as the Hegelian dialectic.

Suffice it to say, if people within the SBC were confused by CRT/I and Marxism, the teachings of Hegel will cause their heads to spin even more. Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (1770-1831) was a German philosopher who pulled from Immanuel Kant and developed a dialectical approach that can be used to transition culture, people, and thought in a preferred direction.

That's a flat-out lie. This is not at all what a Hegelian Dialectic is.
...

I do not know that Buice knows better, so I would not call it a lie. It may be just that Buice has been taught this about the "Hegelian dialectic".

[ohio jones]

I do not know that Buice knows better, so I would not call it a lie. It may be just that Buice has been taught this about the "Hegelian dialectic".

Nah, that's too simplistic. Surely he is conspiring to synthesize a new meaning for the phrase.