What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

[Soloist]

Because people like you keep responding in ways that seem to require a response. And I've responded to the other topics it claims to be about. The goon squad is not out for only Beth Moore.

Apparently you can't help but respond to any comments about Beth Moore.

I am not saying anyone here is not Christian, I am saying that participating in the goon squad is unbecoming of a Christian. Have you read anything that Beth Moore writes? Have you heard her speak? For any Christian who reads the Bible, it should be obvious that when we condemn others without cause, there's a serious danger that we are heaping condemnation on ourselves. But this has come to become such a habit among many Christians, even a dominant part of some Christian subcultures.

My wife used to go to churches with Beth Moore books, those churches we left behind when we started following the Scriptures for several reasons. One of them was Beth Moore books.

It's Pharisees proving to each other that they are among the cool kids because they too condemn today's victim. It's not Christlike.

Sure sounds judgmental to me and fits with your past comments on the Goon squad. Is this hypothetical goon squad saved? where the Pharisees in the Kingdom?

No, this is not about politics. This really is about basic Christian teaching about speech. Do we engage in public campaigns of condemnation against people and groups we do not know, without even taking the time to read what they write or listen to what they say? Is that what Christians do? I'm not the person who keeps reframing this using the world view of American politics. I keep bringing it back to basic biblical teaching on bearing false witness, gossip, and slander.

Is this thread a campaign? Do you need to read the Harry Potter to know its bad? You engage in everything you claim others do. Look at your post history.

So her actual position is not what she says and writes, but what you believe it to be? She says all sex outside of heterosexual marriage is wrong. What more do you need? Regardless, are you in a position to fully understand her and her writings and make a fair judgement? "For you will be judged by the same standard with which you judge others, and you will be measured by the same measure you use."

So effectively, you demand someone admit they are wrong and then when they are respectful enough to admit it, you condemn them. Got it.

Look in a mirror Boot. Can you admit you are wrong ever?

[Bootstrap]

Apparently you can't help but respond to any comments about Beth Moore.

I think it's the posts that say things about me and ask me questions, at least in the last two posts of yours. And FWIW, this is not mostly about Beth Moore to me.

I'm going to respond to just a few things that you said because I am trying to wind this down:

My wife used to go to churches with Beth Moore books, those churches we left behind when we started following the Scriptures for several reasons. One of them was Beth Moore books.

I have not read any Beth Moore books. If I wanted to take a strong position on the book people are pointing to, I would buy the Kindle edition and read it first to see what it does and does not say about homosexuality and gay marriage. But I accept her statement when she classes gay marriage with other sex outside God-ordained heterosexual marriage.

So effectively, you demand someone admit they are wrong and then when they are respectful enough to admit it, you condemn them. Got it.

I don't think that's what you did. Here's what you actually said:

I will admit on further digging she has carefully avoided stating her actual opinion and has not openly claimed to support homosexual marriage, but she certainly has done the same the other way around and refused to say its sinful as she singles out these abusers as especially sinful among that group.

I think Beth Moore gets to say what her actual opinion is. What she says and writes is the best indicator of what she actually believes.

I don't think it's fair to put words into someone else's mouth and then judge them for what you imagine them thinking. I think that happens a lot on MN.

Look in a mirror Boot. Can you admit you are wrong ever?

Seriously, please do ask me to verify claims that I make or to justify things I say are in the Bible or whatever. I think I have admitted I am wrong - perhaps more often than many here. And I think I am perhaps one of the most willing to provide evidence of claims that I make. I really do believe that iron sharpens iron, and I want to live up to my own standards.

But unless you (or someone else) asks me questions or challenges me, I think I'm done with this thread. Feel free to summarize your own thoughts.

[Falco Underhill]

I think Beth Moore gets to say what her actual opinion is. What she says and writes is the best indicator of what she actually believes.

I don't think it's fair to put words into someone else's mouth and then judge them for what you imagine them thinking. I think that happens a lot on MN.

Josh Buice sure didn't get that same courtesy from you, did he.

(on page 2)

I think Hegel is a red herring here. I think this is about people like Russell Moore, Beth Moore (not related), and J.D. Greear. According to Russell Moore, at least, this has a lot more to do with sweeping sexual abuse under the rug. We know this only because a letter he wrote to J.D. Greear was leaked. In his public statements, Moore seems to avoid asking people to take sides on this conflict, e.g.

Remember this? This is when you literally made the topic about "people like Russell Moore, Beth Moore (not related), and J.D. Greear."

[Ken]

I think Beth Moore gets to say what her actual opinion is. What she says and writes is the best indicator of what she actually believes.

I don't think it's fair to put words into someone else's mouth and then judge them for what you imagine them thinking. I think that happens a lot on MN.

Josh Buice sure didn't get that same courtesy from you, did he.

Josh Buice leads a large Baptist Megachurch in Georgia. He has a prolific twitter feed with 13.6 thousand posts and 29,000 followers. He runs a conservative spin-off organization with dozens of churches that opposes SBC leadership. And his organization maintains it's own web site that publishes his views and from which the article that spawned this thread was taken.

I don't think his views and words are at all obscure or hard to discern. He does little else but constantly shout them for all to read and hear.

[Falco Underhill]

I think Beth Moore gets to say what her actual opinion is. What she says and writes is the best indicator of what she actually believes.

I don't think it's fair to put words into someone else's mouth and then judge them for what you imagine them thinking. I think that happens a lot on MN.

Josh Buice sure didn't get that same courtesy from you, did he.

Josh Buice leads a large Baptist Megachurch in Georgia. He has a prolific twitter feed with 13.6 thousand posts and 29,000 followers. He runs a conservative spin-off organization with dozens of churches that opposes SBC leadership. And his organization maintains it's own web site that publishes his views and from which the article that spawned this thread was taken.

I don't think his views and words are at all obscure or hard to discern. He does little else but constantly shout them for all to read and hear.

So in other words, when you want to completely ignore someone's words and attach a "real" meaning to them, you can dig up an excuse. Okay, got it.

[Ken]

Josh Buice sure didn't get that same courtesy from you, did he.

Josh Buice leads a large Baptist Megachurch in Georgia. He has a prolific twitter feed with 13.6 thousand posts and 29,000 followers. He runs a conservative spin-off organization with dozens of churches that opposes SBC leadership. And his organization maintains it's own web site that publishes his views and from which the article that spawned this thread was taken.

I don't think his views and words are at all obscure or hard to discern. He does little else but constantly shout them for all to read and hear.

So in other words, when you want to completely ignore someone's words and attach a "real" meaning to them, you can dig up an excuse. Okay, got it.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I read his article twice and quoted from it at length right here.

[Falco Underhill]

Josh Buice leads a large Baptist Megachurch in Georgia. He has a prolific twitter feed with 13.6 thousand posts and 29,000 followers. He runs a conservative spin-off organization with dozens of churches that opposes SBC leadership. And his organization maintains it's own web site that publishes his views and from which the article that spawned this thread was taken.

I don't think his views and words are at all obscure or hard to discern. He does little else but constantly shout them for all to read and hear.

So in other words, when you want to completely ignore someone's words and attach a "real" meaning to them, you can dig up an excuse. Okay, got it.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I read his article twice and quoted from it at length right here.

Well, then I guess I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.

[Ken]

So in other words, when you want to completely ignore someone's words and attach a "real" meaning to them, you can dig up an excuse. Okay, got it.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I read his article twice and quoted from it at length right here.

Well, then I guess I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.

You were accusing people of ignoring Buice's words. My point was that they are pretty hard to ignore. He is shouting about stuff everywhere he goes: https://www.google.com/search?q=Josh+Buice and https://twitter.com/JoshBuice

[Falco Underhill]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I read his article twice and quoted from it at length right here.

Well, then I guess I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.

You were accusing people of ignoring Buice's words. My point was that they are pretty hard to ignore. He is shouting about stuff everywhere he goes: https://www.google.com/search?q=Josh+Buice and https://twitter.com/JoshBuice

In fact, I was quoting someone saying Buice's article was not what it claimed to be about but was really about something else, and then preaching to others about how not taking someone at their word is unChristian.

You think something in those links makes that okay?

[Bootstrap]

I think Beth Moore gets to say what her actual opinion is. What she says and writes is the best indicator of what she actually believes.

I don't think it's fair to put words into someone else's mouth and then judge them for what you imagine them thinking. I think that happens a lot on MN.

Josh Buice sure didn't get that same courtesy from you, did he.

I think he did. I quoted from his article and pointed out issues with things he had said. I did not attack him personally or try to dig up dirt on him, I addressed his arguments. For instance, I think he badly misrepresents Hegel and the teachings of certain other people. But I focused on what these others had taught. Because Josh Buice's article is not about Josh Buice, it is about others he seems to be attacking.

In other threads, we are working out the actual definitions of phrases like "Hegelian Dialectic" and CRT.

(on page 2)
I think Hegel is a red herring here. I think this is about people like Russell Moore, Beth Moore (not related), and J.D. Greear. According to Russell Moore, at least, this has a lot more to do with sweeping sexual abuse under the rug. We know this only because a letter he wrote to J.D. Greear was leaked. In his public statements, Moore seems to avoid asking people to take sides on this conflict, e.g.

Remember this? This is when you literally made the topic about "people like Russell Moore, Beth Moore (not related), and J.D. Greear."

I was defending people whose teachings had been misrepresented by Buice and others. Frankly, the best thing for us to do is not try to meddle in the internal affairs of the SBC, but if this stuff has to be a focus on our Mennonite social media, at least we can try to set the record straight for some people who are falsely accused.

Let's please not turn around and try to do the same kind of hit job on Josh Buice.