Interested in learning about Holdemans

[joshuabgood]

No. I don't have hostility. And no, mass produced clothes are not morally superior.

I have issues with a culture that has one set of applications and standards and expectations for women, but another for those in power. I was raised this way. I don't think it is ideal and maybe not even right.

So do you think its better for Nationwide and the more conservative groups that have hairstyle requirements for the men, suspenders, plain suit outside of church?

The Amish clearly have defined expectations on clothing for both women and men but I suspect they fail somewhere too in your reasoning and the real focus you would have is more of a direction of women submitting to men and you would hold a egalitarian view that the husband and the wife mutually submit to each other and make decisions jointly instead of the man having the final authority.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong in my perception of you.

Yes. I think Nationwide and more conservative groups, including the Amish, have a more respectable position. So also those that permit buying clothing off a rack for both sexes.

I am against patriarchism if that is what you mean. And yes, I think a culture which has a lot of demands around how women present, but have no issues with a late model pick-up truck with chrome, or a new home with granite counter=tops, or a big bank account --- is in fact an unhealthy one.

In some cultures, spending $25 dollars by a young girl to get her nails painted would result in a meeting with preachers. However even an older man buying late model say $20K (or more) pick up truck is considered acceptable.

[joshuabgood]

The women don’t seem to want to make homemade clothes for the men.

josh, you seem to have hostility towards handmade clothes. Do you think buying mass produced clothes is morally superior?

No. I don't have hostility. And no, mass produced clothes are not morally superior.

I have issues with a culture that has one set of applications and standards and expectations for women, but another for those in power. I was raised this way. I don't think it is ideal and maybe not even right.

If you think men and women are identical, then plain/conservative Anabaptism (or, indeed, biblical Christianity) isn’t a good fit for you.

Men and women are different and have different roles and expectations.

You missed the point.

[unworthy]

The Flemish background people often have a last name of Friesen,

oh?

This was the opposite of what I thought. That the Flemish had last names of Jantz, Koehn, Dirks, Schmidt, Voth, Wedel, to name a few, and the Frisians had last names of Friesen, Dueck, Giesbrecht, Unruh, Warkentin, Hoeppner, Rempel, Penner, to name even more.

Growing up, I was not aware of the Flemish/Frisian distinction named as such. Rather, I knew my mother was "Polsch" and my father was "Molusch" and that the two groups had not at one time gotten along with each other very well. One of my dad's cousin's told me about how it used to be "in the old days" how Molusch parents didn't want their children marrying Polsch spouses and vice versa.

I'm fairly certain the Frisians/Molusch ended up in Chortitza (The Old Colony), and Molotschna while the Flemish/Polsch settled along the Volhinya in Poland.

[Soloist]

Yes. I think Nationwide and more conservative groups, including the Amish, have a more respectable position. So also those that permit buying clothing off a rack for both sexes.

I am against patriarchism if that is what you mean. And yes, I think a culture which has a lot of demands around how women present, but have no issues with a late model pick-up truck with chrome, or a new home with granite counter=tops, or a big bank account --- is in fact an unhealthy one.

In some cultures, spending $25 dollars by a young girl to get her nails painted would result in a meeting with preachers. However even an older man buying late model say $20K (or more) pick up truck is considered acceptable.

I would tend to agree with your first statement.

Your second statement, I am against the notion that a man is better or worth more. I am not however, against the idea of the man having authority in the church or the home.
The finance issues are present in almost every church I've ever been at... I think its lack of quality teaching combined with a lack of the heart desire. The Scripture is clear on our finances and I see no problem with the girl getting talked to as in my eyes there is no reason to paint your nails in a church that stands against it. As for the truck, well... it depends as to what he is doing with it. I have seen some young men invest quite a bit into their car and I think there is a line that many of them cross with vanity that would be comparable to the amount of money people spend on hair and dress.
Now if the older man was in construction or some job were he needed a truck then its an economical stance possibly. Its very hard to judge someone else's spending on some of these things. No different then gluttony. You would have to step fairly far out for someone to clearly make a judgement on your spending or gluttony.
Now if I went out and got a full body back rub by male or female that would likely result in some questions and if I bought a 2000$ computer for gaming that would also result in questions. If my wife went and got a pedicure minus the nail polish I doubt anyone would really care even though its vanity too.
I'm sure there is culturally acceptable reasons to do things that are not Biblical, and in the broader sense I see a serious problem when it comes to mutual submission. The contrast of those two items you picked though... There is no reason to paint nails other then for looks. The pickup... isn't clear.
Now if the car was say a mustang or some fancy sports car, I would hope they would get a stronger treatment then the nails, but both reflect a similar issue in the heart.

[jcxm360]

My family and I decided to visit them once and that was our first experience with an anabaptist group. We stayed with them for about 2 years and expressed interest in becoming members even though we were not yet fully adapted to their way. We loved them and they treated us like family and I thought we were in heaven. Nowhere did we experience this type of church life. All went down hill after I learned about their one true church doctrine, that alone caused me to doubt everything about them. We ended up leaving and moving away and I do miss them greatly.

[Josh]

No. I don't have hostility. And no, mass produced clothes are not morally superior.

I have issues with a culture that has one set of applications and standards and expectations for women, but another for those in power. I was raised this way. I don't think it is ideal and maybe not even right.

So do you think its better for Nationwide and the more conservative groups that have hairstyle requirements for the men, suspenders, plain suit outside of church?

The Amish clearly have defined expectations on clothing for both women and men but I suspect they fail somewhere too in your reasoning and the real focus you would have is more of a direction of women submitting to men and you would hold a egalitarian view that the husband and the wife mutually submit to each other and make decisions jointly instead of the man having the final authority.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong in my perception of you.

Yes. I think Nationwide and more conservative groups, including the Amish, have a more respectable position. So also those that permit buying clothing off a rack for both sexes.

I am against patriarchism if that is what you mean. And yes, I think a culture which has a lot of demands around how women present, but have no issues with a late model pick-up truck with chrome, or a new home with granite counter=tops, or a big bank account --- is in fact an unhealthy one.

In some cultures, spending $25 dollars by a young girl to get her nails painted would result in a meeting with preachers. However even an older man buying late model say $20K (or more) pick up truck is considered acceptable.

First off, I’m very interested in anywhere I can get a “late model” pickup for $20k.

I agree wealth needs to be viewed with spiritual concern. However, I’m not sure why lack of spiritual concern in that area excuses women becoming worldly and adopting worldly fashions and styles. A culture is not improved by women going and spending money at nail salons.

[Josh]

My family and I decided to visit them once and that was our first experience with an anabaptist group. We stayed with them for about 2 years and expressed interest in becoming members even though we were not yet fully adapted to their way. We loved them and they treated us like family and I thought we were in heaven. Nowhere did we experience this type of church life. All went down hill after I learned about their one true church doctrine, that alone caused me to doubt everything about them. We ended up leaving and moving away and I do miss them greatly.

I hope you have found other good church fellowship.

For those who don’t join our church, I have always said, I hope we can inspire you to follow the best of our examples in your own family and church groups. That is how I feel when I visit other plain groups as well. I hope I can appreciate and follow the best qualities about them.

[RZehr]

First off, I’m very interested in anywhere I can get a “late model” pickup for $20k.

https://www.ford.com/trucks/maverick/2022/ You better get your order in soon though.

Get a head start on owning an all-new 2022 Ford Maverick. Fill out the reservation form, then your Ford Dealer will contact you to confirm your reservation. Once confirmed, the order process will begin. There’s no deposit required so reserve yours today and get in on the fun.

Starting at: $19,995*

I suppose that asterisks on the cost should be a couple sizes bigger, but that is what Ford is advertising.

[Josh]

For a work truck, $20k doesn’t go real far. You can probably get an ok 10 year old truck for $20k.

[Ken]

Around here $20k will get you a pretty decent work truck. Something like this which is a pretty no-frills 2016 F-150 model with high mileage but otherwise looks like a pretty decent vehicle: https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1FTEX1EP7GFD61987

Of course if you want a diesel heavy duty model that is a whole different world of hurt. But very few people actually need those unless they are towing monster trailers.