What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

General Christian Theology
Bootstrap

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:33 pm I hold an opinion Beth Moore is moving in a liberal-progressive direction, and cite as evidence the fact she is moving in the direction of affirmation.
You gave no evidence that she is moving in the direction of affirmation. She says she is not. But you keep repeating the claim. With very loaded language. Playing to the audience. That's precisely goon squad. And the goon squad never backs down once it has fixed a target.

Facts are not a liberal debate tactic. They are a basis for truth. And the Bible has a lot to say about this question. For instance ...
You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness.
The judges shall inquire diligently, and if the witness is a false witness and has accused his brother falsely, then you shall do to him as he had meant to do to his brother. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.
So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ...
Social media does not make basic biblical teaching about speech obsolete.
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Ken
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Affiliation: former MCUSA

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:33 pm I hold an opinion Beth Moore is moving in a liberal-progressive direction, and cite as evidence the fact she is moving in the direction of affirmation.
What do you mean by the term "affirmation" above?
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Josh

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by Josh »

She felt the need to renounce language in her books clearly calling out homosexuality as sin. She’s replaced it with soft-pedaling language.

We’ve seen this path before.
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Bootstrap

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:11 pm She felt the need to renounce language in her books clearly calling out homosexuality as sin. She’s replaced it with soft-pedaling language.

We’ve seen this path before.
No, she did not renounce that language. Please choose your words carefully and say things that are true. Do you know what the word "renounce" means? She edited one passage to treat gay sin the same way as heterosexual sin, and affirmed that she still sees it as sin.

And please, "we've seen this path before" - so she is guilty of what you imagine her doing in the future?

This really is goon squad.
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Josh

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by Josh »

Beth Moore supports women in church leadership positions, which is an unbiblical position, and also a hallmark of someone moving in a liberal direction. (Denominations that adopt this generally don’t stay conservative very long; this is happening in the SBC for example.)

Moore has a history of always taking the liberal sides in events, such as when she made a statement against the March for Life incident with Sandmann (since withdrawn). She’s as guilty of joining social media goon squads as anyone.
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Bootstrap

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:32 pm Beth Moore supports women in church leadership positions, which is an unbiblical position, and also a hallmark of someone moving in a liberal direction. (Denominations that adopt this generally don’t stay conservative very long; this is happening in the SBC for example.)
That's quite different from your original accusation. But it is true that she believes that.

FWIW, I really do think we would be much better off talking about biblical versus unbiblical instead of using the UNBIBLICAL terms "liberal" and "conservative", which are not mentioned in the Bible even once and tend to get confused with political identities.
Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:32 pmMoore has a history of always taking the liberal sides in events, such as when she made a statement against the March for Life incident with Sandmann (since withdrawn). She’s as guilty of joining social media goon squads as anyone.
I don't know what she said about Sandmann. I do know that she is against abortion. I also know this - the incident that really hit her hardest and probably led to her leaving the Southern Baptist Church involved taking a stand for basic sexual morality.
Moore was flying home from a ministry event in October 2016 when she decided to compose the tweets that changed her life. That weekend, she had glimpsed headlines about Donald Trump’s 2005 comments on the now infamous Access Hollywood tape. But it wasn’t until that plane ride, with newspapers and transcripts spread out in front of her, that Moore learned the full extent of it—including the reaction of some Christian leaders who, picking up a common line of spin, dismissed the comments as “locker-room talk.”

“I was like, ‘Oh no. No. No,’ ” Moore told me. “I was so appalled.” Trump’s ugly boasting felt personal to her: Many of her followers have confided to her that they’ve suffered abuse, and Moore herself says she was sexually abused as a small child by someone close to her family—a trauma she has talked about publicly, though never in detail.

The next day, Moore wrote a few short messages to her nearly 900,000 followers. “Wake up, Sleepers, to what women have dealt with all along in environments of gross entitlement & power,” she said in one tweet. “Are we sickened? Yes. Surprised? NO.” Like other women, Moore wrote, she had been “misused, stared down, heckled, talked naughty to.” As pastors took to the airwaves to defend Trump, she was trying to understand how “some Christian leaders don’t think it’s that big a deal.”

The tweets upended Moore’s cheerful, feminine world. Breitbart News claimed that Moore was standing “in the gap for Hillary Clinton,” borrowing a turn of phrase from the Book of Ezekiel. Moore did not support Clinton; she told me she voted for a third-party candidate in 2016. But she was horrified by church leaders’ reflexive support of Trump. To Moore, it wasn’t just a matter of hypocrisy, of making a deal with the devil that would deliver a Supreme Court seat, among other spoils. Moore believes that an evangelical culture that demeans women, promotes sexism, and disregards accusations of sexual abuse enabled Trump’s rise.
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temporal1

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by temporal1 »

ok. ok. mystery solved.
boot perceives this woman (i know nothing of and care not about) - as a sister in never trumpland.

got it.

the 2005 incident was hashed+rehashed. some forum members here pointed out the incident was from 2005, before DJT held any public office, was a jet setter and big businessman. please spare me the alleged shock. some forum members were efficient in pointing out numbers of sitting POTUSs and other elected reps who had committed fornication and adultery while IN ACTIVE ELECTED OFFICE. how many pastors have done the same?? and worse.

please spare the dramatic hand wringing.

just a reminder, i was reprimanded for referring to my opinion that DJT was railroaded out of office. mods saying folks don’t want to go back there. who wants to go back to 2005?

i did not refer to those folks as a goon squad. but if the shoe fits.

i’m not finding “goon squad” in scriptures. it must be in the revised Bible edition with the Book of Never Trump.
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temporal1

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:32 pm Beth Moore supports women in church leadership positions, which is an unbiblical position, and also a hallmark of someone moving in a liberal direction. (Denominations that adopt this generally don’t stay conservative very long; this is happening in the SBC for example.)

Moore has a history of always taking the liberal sides in events, such as when she made a statement against the March for Life incident with Sandmann (since withdrawn). She’s as guilty of joining social media goon squads as anyone.

now years ago, george pointed out the correlation between WIM and .. everything you’re saying.
at the time, i thought of ELCA, PCUSA, MCUSA, Methodists, etc. .. can there be any dispute? i’m sorry to say.

Nick Sandmann seems to be a sore spot on this forum.
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Bootstrap

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:33 pm i’m not finding “goon squad” in scriptures. it must be in the revised Bible edition with the Book of Never Trump.
Pharisees. Unrighteous judges. There are plenty of biblical phrases to choose from here. Do we speak to Pharisees the way Jesus did? Do we speak to sinners the way Jesus did? Or do we speak to Pharisees the way Pharisees did and speak to sinners the way Pharisees did? Are we play-acting like Pharisees, congratulating each other on our righteousness while making false accusations against others?

I serve a Lord who was killed as a result of this. Beth Moore is not Jesus, but she did paint a target on herself when she spoke out against sexual immorality.

If you preach separation from the world, then promote worldly talking points within hours or days after they appear on the Internet, without actually understanding what a Hegelian dialectic is and without evidence for your claims, and keep repeating the same claims page after page after page ... that's the goon squad I'm talking about. It's not separated from the world. It's not holy. It's not biblical. It does not look like Jesus.

Perhaps we need to return to the Bible, Jesus, and the Kingdom of God? Perhaps our own righteousness is particularly important?
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Soloist

Re: What are your thoughts re Hegelian dialectic?

Post by Soloist »

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:07 pm
If you preach separation from the world, then promote worldly talking points within hours or days after they appear on the Internet, without actually understanding what a Hegelian dialectic is and without evidence for your claims, and keep repeating the same claims page after page after page ... that's the goon squad I'm talking about. It's not separated from the world. It's not holy. It's not biblical. It does not look like Jesus.

Perhaps we need to return to the Bible, Jesus, and the Kingdom of God? Perhaps our own righteousness is particularly important?
Its interesting that Hegelian dialectic can mean many things.

Also it kind of sounds like you are making a judgement yourself despite your own request.

Can someone say something and still do the opposite? Clearly we all know the answer to this.

What defines something as a worldly talking point? your own opinion? how can you accuse this "goon squad" of using worldly talking points? This is silly as you are doing the very thing you accuse others of doing.
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