Immodest and/or Suggestive Men's Clothing & Styles?

[Ken]

Beardless men look like women.

The early church says so

But for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, to arrange his hair at the looking-glass, to shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them, how womanly! And, in truth, unless you saw them naked, you would suppose them to be women. Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 195) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.275

I suggest we move to excommunicate Eastern from Mennonet!

So you rely on Clement of Alexandra for guidance on proper Christian conduct?

Clement was also an egalitarian when it came to equality of sexes, on the grounds that salvation is extended to all humans equally. He also suggested that Christ is neither female nor male, and that God the Father has both female and male aspects. He described the eucharist as milk from the breast (Christ) of the Father. He supported women playing an active role in the leadership of the church and in his writings he details a long list of women he considers inspirational, which includes both Biblical and Classical Greek figures.

Or is Clement someone that conservative Anabaptists employ on an "a la carte" basis, picking and choosing which teachings to follow and which to studiously ignore?

[Soloist]

So you rely on Clement of Alexandra for guidance on proper Christian conduct?

Clement was also an egalitarian when it came to equality of sexes, on the grounds that salvation is extended to all humans equally. He also suggested that Christ is neither female nor male, and that God the Father has both female and male aspects. He described the eucharist as milk from the breast (Christ) of the Father. He supported women playing an active role in the leadership of the church and in his writings he details a long list of women he considers inspirational, which includes both Biblical and Classical Greek figures.

Or is Clement someone that conservative Anabaptists employ on an "a la carte" basis, picking and choosing which teachings to follow and which to studiously ignore?

You have never read Clement have you? I appreciate a lot of what he wrote but I would say the early church writers should not be elevated beyond a superior commentary.

If you want to discuss early church fathers, I'm perfectly willing... I've read most of it but maybe another thread.

[temporal1]

Beardless men look like women.
The early church says so

But for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, to arrange his hair at the looking-glass, to shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them, how womanly! And, in truth, unless you saw them naked, you would suppose them to be women. Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 195) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.275

I suggest we move to excommunicate Eastern from Mennonet!

- fun example, Soloist. thank you.

[Joy]

Beardless men look like women.

The early church says so

But for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, to arrange his hair at the looking-glass, to shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them, how womanly! And, in truth, unless you saw them naked, you would suppose them to be women. Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 195) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.275

I disagree.

[Ken]

I have spent most of my life in professional jobs where there was a certain stated or unstated dress code. In teaching it is basically button down or polo shirt, khaki pants or slacks, and some sort of casual leather shoe. So basically no t-shirts, jeans, or sneakers. My wardrobe has basically evolved in that direction to where that's really all I have, and it is what I wear all the time except in summer when I often swap out longer cargo or hiking shorts. If the occasion is a bit more formal like a wedding or fancy work reception I'll toss on a blazer and maybe a tie.

I haven't worn an actual suit since I worked for the Federal government in Washington DC decades ago and needed to wear one on Capitol Hill and in big wig meetings. The only time I wear t-shirts or athletic shorts is when actually working out. I have never worn or owned a sleeveless shirt or tank top, even when I was young. I don't like open toed sandals or flip flops but do have a pair of closed-toe Keen sandals for summer. And I don't ever go shirtless except when swimming. So very boring actually.

The key is to wear clothes that fit. Ill-fitting clothing of any type tends to look bad and distracting.

[Sudsy]

I think if Jesus came to some of our churches wearing what was most common for the poorer class of people in His time here, a tunic that goes just below knee height, He might be turned away at the door showing so much leg. And in sandals even. My guess is that most Jewish people likely think most of our western clothing is immodest.

If we are to follow Jesus literally, perhaps all of us men need to change our clothing. Now that would be non-conformity, right ? And wearing sandals all the time would make foot washing a practical thing as it was in Jesus time.

To me, modest dress is more about not attempting to draw special attention to how we dress and what the NT says is the attention we draw should be on our good deeds. When our good deeds are so outstanding and reflect a remarkable God changed heart and that is our MO, then the Holy Spirit will guide us in our outward apparel. It is the inner man that first needs change not some required dress code. YMMV.

[SJS]

I think if Jesus came to some of our churches wearing what was most common for the poorer class of people in His time here, a tunic that goes just below knee height, He might be turned away at the door showing so much leg. And in sandals even. My guess is that most Jewish people likely think most of our western clothing is immodest.

If we are to follow Jesus literally, perhaps all of us men need to change our clothing. Now that would be non-conformity, right ? And wearing sandals all the time would make foot washing a practical thing as it was in Jesus time.

To me, modest dress is more about not attempting to draw special attention to how we dress and what the NT says is the attention we draw should be on our good deeds. When our good deeds are so outstanding and reflect a remarkable God changed heart and that is our MO, then the Holy Spirit will guide us in our outward apparel. It is the inner man that first needs change not some required dress code. YMMV.

Very well said!

[RZehr]

I think if Jesus came to some of our churches wearing what was most common for the poorer class of people in His time here, a tunic that goes just below knee height, He might be turned away at the door showing so much leg. And in sandals even.

I doubt it. When was the last time you’ve heard of someone being turned away at the church door because of his clothes? I’ve never heard of, nor seen it happen.

My guess is that most Jewish people likely think most of our western clothing is immodest.

Maybe so.

To me, modest dress is more about not attempting to draw special attention to how we dress and what the NT says is the attention we draw should be on our good deeds.

Good reason not to do cultural appropriation, things like wearing 2,000 year old middle eastern garments to a modern day N. American church service, eh?

… When our good deeds are so outstanding and reflect a remarkable God changed heart and that is our MO, then the Holy Spirit will guide us in our outward apparel. It is the inner man that first needs change not some required dress code. YMMV.

I agree.

[steve-in-kville]

And I don't ever go shirtless except when swimming.

Must be challenging to take a shower

[Josh]

Beardless men look like women.

The early church says so

But for one who is a man to comb himself and shave himself with a razor, for the sake of fine effect, to arrange his hair at the looking-glass, to shave his cheeks, pluck hairs out of them, and smooth them, how womanly! And, in truth, unless you saw them naked, you would suppose them to be women. Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 195) Ante-Nicene Fathers vol.2 pg.275

I suggest we move to excommunicate Eastern from Mennonet!

They may have already excommunicated MennoNet from themselves (except for business use).